Latest on Phil Kessel.

Phil Kessel’s not scoring and the Maple Leafs aren’t winning, sparking calls for the club to trade him.

Should the Maple Leafs trade Phil Kessel?

Should the Maple Leafs trade Phil Kessel?

TORONTO STAR: Damien Cox on Monday called upon the Maple Leafs management to retain their first round pick in the 2013 entry draft and shop Phil Kessel.  Cox doesn’t believe Kessel should be an “untouchable”, calling upon new GM Dave Nonis to use the winger as a trade chip to rebuild the club.  Cox believes the Leafs should seek a deal “similar to that made by Columbus at last year’s deadline when Jeff Carter, then 27, was moved to the L.A. Kings for 25-year-old defenceman Jack Johnson and a first-round pick.”

SPORTSNET.CA: Chris Johnston believes Kessel’s future in Toronto could be determined by how long Nonis believes the winger will remain among the league’s best and when he expects the franchise could develop into a contender. ” If those two timelines overlap,” writes Johnston, ” it’s hard to imagine why Kessel would be shipped out of town — even if he’s due to receive a raise next summer on the $5.4-million annual cap hit he currently carries.”

SPECTOR’S NOTE: If Kessel hadn’t gone goalless in the Leafs first five games, and if the club had won more than they lost over that period, I doubt there would’ve been any talk about the Leafs shopping him. I recently offered up my thoughts on Kessel’s future in Toronto, suggesting if he doesn’t see a future in Toronto beyond next summer (when he qualifies for UFA status),  or if his salary demands become extravagant, the Leafs should shop him. Otherwise, they should keep Kessel in the fold and try to find him a decent first-line play-making center.

Ultimately, of course, it comes down to Nonis. If the Leafs miss the playoffs again (the last time they saw the post-season was 2004), big changes might be coming to their roster, perhaps as early as this season’s trade deadline. Moving Kessel could be among those changes.

65 Comments

  1. The leafs need to face reality and start making changes to this club that will allow them to build a strong foundation through the draft and possibly pick up a young budding star

    If a team has an abundance of these players as say the Edmonton Oilers do, and they feel that they could use a proved goal scorer to sit on their top two lines, then maybe a deal can be made. Now, i’m not saying that they’ll do a deal with Edmonton, but just using them as an example.

    It’s going to be very tough to go out and find a big playmaking center to play with Kessel and it may be easier to trade him and get vaulable assets in return.

    Just my thoughts

    • Well said. Sam Gagner for example would be a great centreman to put on a line with Kessel but for who? Edmonton needs a D man or upgrade in net.

  2. @ Homes

    You nailed it. The model for success in the NHL is thus: Suck for a few years, trade your aging veterans for draft picks and prospects, and then draft well. Then when the time is right, find the key player(s) that you need to get you over the top.

    The New York Rangers model (cast away guys on your roster to make room for the new free agent to hit the market) doesn’t work.

    My observations (as a guy living in Southern California) is that the Maple Leafs want to be the Penguins of today without going through the 5 or so years that the Penguins were awful.

    • The Sens sucked for one year and are now pretty good. So did the Flyers.

      And the Islanders and Blue Jackets sucked for how long? And they still suck. And don’t get me started on Florida pre-Tallon. Washington sucked for a few years and it got them Ovechkin and Backstrom, and they’re sliding again without having won a cup.

      It’s not a rock solid strategy. You have to suck in the right years. The team’s GM still factors heavily on team building strategy.

    • aging veterans? kessels 25… hes hardlty old… in fact you could argue he hasnt even peaked yet

  3. If it is that Kessel will not want to stay in Toronto then yeah…. trade him. If not this season then most likely the next season, and the Rangers could be in play as well since Gaborik will be a UFA by then.

    A lot of teams will be interested in Kessel and Nonis will have many offers on the table. Should be a good move for the Leafs if it comes to that.

  4. Personally I don’t see a great return to be had for kessel.

    They would be better trying to get that big center for him. I’m interested to see nonis’ plan as Burkes “plan” (if you can call it that) wasn’t followed at all except for getting the big slow D he picked up.

    • I don’t get this comment. Are you saying all Burke did was acquire slow dmen, and that Burke did not have a plan? You must be a tad confused because gardiner has been recovering from concussion, but he’s one of the fastest dmen in the league. Kostka and Phanono both are faster than average dmen. Also, Percy and Rielly (Burke’s recent draftees) are super fast amongst their peers.

      Burke has dummied GMs in his time w/ the Leafs. Did you review the roster and AHL roster the day Burke arrived? We actually have players how finish top 10 in scoring. More than just Sundin. How does one get rid of Jason Blake and Toskala? How does one get Gardiner/Lupol for Beauchemin? Phanono/Keith Aulie for players who can be had from summertime UFA.

      The Maple Leafs have a solid record of making any good GM and Coach look foolish. The organization does as well.. case in point when the Owner selected Luke Richardson over the GM’s choice Joe Sakic. It’s a failing organization by on-ice results only. it’s super successful as an investor. What other team could attract teachers and television broadcasters to own them? If this were Nashville, we’d be serious cup contenders. But because we write about the Leafs to death, show up to hockey games sans $250, and tune-in regardless of on-ice product, there is zero incentive to win. As long as we continue to do this, all of this, nothing Nonis does will matter. But we’ll still get the bleacher GMs, i’m looking at you Cox, who have the answers… and the dumb questions. Leafs coaches/players/GMs get the dumbest questions and arrogance from media than any other city.

      You want a cup? Switch sports for a decade.

      • Phanono? I think you mean phaneuf right? As in dion the pylon? Fast? Lol

        And Burkes plan was to build from the net out ad he likes tough big forwards.

        His first move for kessel was against “his plan”

        So yes Burke didn’t follow his own plan and made bad decisions and didn’t evaluate his roster properly

        • right.. the dman most forwards fear. you may not because you’re sitting in your comfy sofa at home but ask nash how easy it is to pass him. i don’t think dion’s fast. what i said was, he’s faster than the avg dman. get the difference? speeds aren’t like an on/off switch. just cuz you’re not slow, doesn’t mean you’re fast. three times last night he skated up from his own net w/ the puck to the sabres’ blue line with relative ease and grace. grace is impressive because he’s usually not graceful. he’s not a slow dman. komo, beauchemin.. those guys are slow. if you were going to prick a hole in my argument, those two would have been much better choices. it’s boring when i have to assist the oppostion while in debate.

          because it was burke’s plan to build net-out doesn’t mean that a goalie has to be his first move. it could be his last move. do i really have to explain this? the kessle move wasn’t a move i would have made, but it doesn’t have anything to do with burke steering away from his plan. btw, what’s the big deal about doing that anyway? when the facts change, i change my mind. what do you do?

          when it comes to the leafs i’m fairly objective, i’m a hawk fan and been one since the roenick days. i follow the leafs because i live here. i find it difficult to exchange ideas objectively with die-hards in TO.

  5. Trading Kessel for a big Center is fine but who has the extra big center? Pitts had one and they traded him away to Carolina.

  6. Toronto has not been able to draft. Even if they traded Kessel for draft picks they would waste them. If you trade Kessel now there would just be one more hole in the lineup. The good news is that if they do trade him and continue to suck they will still sellout every game because Toronto fans just like to complain and won’t actually stop supporting there team.

  7. Kessel is a 25 year old scorer coming off his career year. For most players, this age is the beginning of their prime years. Unless the Leafs expect to have a 10 year rebuild starting now, Kessel is a cornerstone player moving forward. I seriously dont get it. Calls to trade the best two players on the team–two players who are in their mid-20s, is completely ridiculous. Even if the Leafs bottom out this season, they’d be adding Nathan MacKinnon or Seth Jones, and would easily be a playoff contender with any kind of goaltending.

    Goaltending has been the issue since Burke got here and its not going away. It’s almost disgusting as a fan to watch pathetic goaltending wash this team away year after year. This team has been in the top half of the league persistently in the offensive categories. Check out their team save percentage. They were rocking a solid .850% with Toskala at one point. Its barely ever been better than .900%.

    • Sean, its pretty optimistic to think that by adding one rookie theists would be in the playoffs despite “any kind of goaltending”. This is a team that has put off a real rebuild for a long time. It should have started when Sundin left but its been patchwork and some bad trades that have had the Leafs spinning their tires. Any contending team must have a top quality netminder. That is the backbone of the team and where a team can all draw on for confidence, or lose it.

  8. @Homes
    Couldn’t agree more

    @Icebear
    They will get a very good return for Kessel a 25yr old 80pt man that could score 50 goals on the right team

    The only hope the Leafs have of retaining Kessel and getting a number one center is Getzlaf in UFA market so if that doesn’t happen (which is quite likely it won’t) then you need to move Kessel.

    • So James Neal type trade?

      Alex gologoski

      For Neal + niskanin (sp)

      There’s a similar stat/age player but Neal is bigger and tougher.

    • I would think you could probably pry Yakupov out of Edmonton with a 1st rounder for kessel and a prospect. Maybe I’m crazy but if it looks like he won’t resign with the leafs then you have to trade him. If he walks, the. That trade by Burke is tied for worst all time with about 3 of mike milburys. Ugh… I just got a creepy feeling typing his name…

      • No, you can’t.

      • The oilers wouldn’t trade yakupov for kessel straight up, let alone throw a first round pick in there…

      • This is my first post ever potentially trading er and ive been following spector for years now, one thing I have noticed pop up over and over is Edmonton potentially trading Yakupov and as a Flames fan, nothing would thrill me more than to see Edmonton trade off assets and become a bad team. However, there is no way Edmonton will trade Yakupov right now, most of all for Kessell.

        My money is on Kessell heading west when he is traded I would say that he would end up on a team that would need some offense such as Calgary, Phoenix or Columbus, but only if the offer is sufficient to fix the leafs issues, mainly on defense.

  9. For all whom have been BLASTING me for the last 6 months about this conversation ….I just would like to say that I was discussing this issue last summer and took a lot of verbal abuse on this topic,…..which was uncalled for ….well here is what was said last night by COX which is exactly what I ve been saying with uncalled for critisizm……this has been my point since last year !!

    Its not about the player its about the timing and the future!
    the Leafs need to start playing with a sense of dictation …they aren’t doing that …they need to get assets back that will fit in with a longer plan when they can start to incorporate the players they have drafted and the players they are grooming together with the veteran presence they will look to acquire!

    Damien Cox via twitter: “Re Kessel: ppl don’t get it. Not about him, or how he’s playing. He does what he does well. Its about managing assets and team-building. Understand Kessel’s contract, and you understand why they have little choice but to move him.”

    Kessel may be a slight loos in goal production on a personal basis but the leafs will make that up in total game play with multiple players hitting the nest in a different style of hockey in the not so distant future …and that’s playing infront of the net in the corners jumping on loose pucks and driving to the crease …not OVECHKIN style one timers and lucky breakaways!!!

    The only way to win in this league moving forward is by dictating the play and being the bully ….sorry but thats the way its going!!

    • Cox isn’t much smarter than Simmons is. The only one of those “Reporters” on TSN’s Sunday morning show that knows the game that well is Farber. I don’t know if Cox still does it or someone else, but I know that they have another guy that comes on there and he’s okay.

    • Damien Cox is an idiot blowhard. His track record of moronic opinions speak for themselves. Steve Simmons is only a slight improvement. Gotta love the TO sports media…

  10. Yesterday I said I didn’t like the trade kessel idea and I still don’t but I do agree they need a big center. I had a thought today. Kadri and kessel are similar players. Now whether kadri can score 30 + is to be seen but if you move kessel I think you have a replacement in kadri and if you move kessel the only way I do it is for that center. Only team that would make sense for kessel to go to would be a contender so would a kessel for coutuerier straight up make sense? Philly is deep and if they go to the deadline looking to add a scorer similar to what la did last year kessel might fit.

    • Flyers wouldn’t include couturier in a trade for Weber why the hell would they for kessel? Flyers don’t need a guy like kessel. They need D and maybe a bigger gritty winger to give giroux some space.

  11. The Leafs could have 6 …..30 goals scorers on the top two lines that they acquired via trade to play on the top 6 but if they are small and fringe players they will not have succes in this league …you can have 6 Kessels that score 40 goals a year….if they all play the same style …YOU ARE GOING NO WHERE !!!!

    Look at the size and style of the top 2 lines for the leafs …..this has been my fricken point for the past two years ….

    Kadri Kessel Kulimen Lupul MaCarthur Bozak Frattin Komorav ……WHO IN THE HELL ARE THESE GUYS PUSHING AROUND IN A STANLEY CUP PLAYOFF …..youi can have all the talent in the world in 6 players but if you cant take the play to the other team and fight for the puck in the offensive zone to create scoring chances …YOU WILL LOOSE EVERY TIME …..they need size up front ….start there !!!!

    And if you play with skill and are small like some players …..i.e Kessel ….than play like Zach Parise and maybe you will win some games!!!!

  12. If Kessell does go I’d love to see him in Philly. Flyers could send Read, Briere and a 1st rounder to Toronto. Flyers would then be stacked with a relatively young core: Giroux, Kessel, Voracek (sp?), Simmonds (sp?), the Schenns, Couturier (sp?), Loughton, Gustaffson and still have Hartnell and Kimmonen.

    Mezzaros could then be shipped out when healthy to get a decent goalie prospect like Bishop or Bernier to get ready for when they buy out Bryz in after the 2013/14 season.

    • Why in the world would Toronto be interested in Briere? He’s exactly what the Leafs DON’T need.

      If the Leafs are looking at dealing Phaneuf along with or instead of Kessel I could see the Flyers interested. But it’ll take a Couturier to get either one of them.

      • I would think the Flyers would be more interested in Phaneuf then Kessel.

        Couturier for Phaneuf, then the Leafs can keep Kessel

        • I’d be laughing my head off if the Flyers made that deal. Phaneuf might have to be demoted to 2nd pairing the way he’s playing right now. Couturier is only looking up in his career.

        • Actually Philadelphia may be exactly the kind of team where Kessel could excel. Big, strong players who can dig the puck out and get it to him. He could possibly score even more in that enviornment. Also if anyone gets in his face a linemate, like maybe Hartnell, would be able to come to his rescue immediately rather than waiting until Orr or Brown can get a shift to put people in line.

        • Now you’re talking, a win-win trade in my books!

  13. Over the last couple years Kessel has been seeing the ice amazingly. He has gone from a shoot first player to a playmaker. He is still very young and needs to be signed to an extension. Gifted players like this don’t come along very often. We need to keep him and build our forward group around him. For to many years we never had that gifted offensive player and now we have him so let’s trade him away! Not since Mogilny have we had an offensive talent like that, and he was near the end of his career. Goaltending is our achiles heel , and has been for a long time. A team plays totally different when you can count on and trust your goaltender. When a team is sitting there expecting a bad goal , it is hard to play the way you can. Get a goalie we can count on and I’m sure this will be a different team. Don’t trade Kessel because in a year or two , I will be seeing posts on here that we need a goal scorer!

  14. @ MJRI

    You don’t need to be a genius to recognize the issues at hand with term – contract and the timing of the fact that Kessel is a UFA next year with a limited trade clause and will be looking for $6 million plus ….don’t make this an issue that its not……….. and give the gears when you know the truth !!!! Makes you look bad !!!!
    On another topic heres some noteables the Leafs passed up over the last 2 UFA seasons that wpould have given them scoring size and better puck management along with some skill and somewhat veteran presence to incorporate into the line up that they passed up on or didnt go to the wall for …..most of these guys signed for less than $ 2 million ……They took Tim Connolly and Jay MClement instead when they could have got some of these guys ??????? What was Burke doing ???? Fishing in the Queen Charlottes on July 1st ????

    Overlooked UFAs that would have benefited the leaf rebuild but overlooked

    2012 ………..Leasf sign McClement
    Brandon Prust
    Danielle Winnik

    2011………Leafs Sign Connolly
    Eric Cole
    Tanner Glass
    Sean Bergenhiem
    Michael Ryder

    • That’s provided those UFAs actually want to play in Toronto. Florida gave Bergenheim the money since they had to throw money at players to get to the floor that year, Cole was given way more than he was worth at the time (though I must say he flourished), Ryder was a second-line enigma and only developed into a first liner playing in Dallas, not when he was in Boston.

      Overlooked? If Burke wanted these guys, would he have gotten them? He wanted Richards, did he get him? No, the Rangers did. We don’t know why he doesn’t have those players, but we can’t assume that the great and mighty Leafs get their pick of the litter.

  15. Kessel should be delt for a deal like the one that got LA Carter last season. He is not a cornerstone he is a peremeter player and TO needs a tougher bigger stonger forwards.We need some big tough stay at home types on defence. We have several really good puck moving offensive defencemen coming up. Get a top 3 pick and draft a talented centre and deal everyone but Phaneauf as he will make alot less on his next contract and accually likes TO and is a good guy in the room.

  16. That’s not what I am saying ….

    The Leafs didnt have the pick of the litter but they needed more size upfront the Candiens paid Prust $2.8 million the Leafs took a shot on a fringe high maintenance player in Connolly and gave him $4.5 miillion Iam showing the ineptness of there choices …do you think Prust would have signed for an extra million for 4 years in Toronto …I do !!!

    They could have also paid Michael Ryder who is eastern boy who would have loved to play for the leafs power forward winger who puts up great numbers ….Just pointing this out …that they could have acquired quality for all around good players who play in the messy areas and can put numbers up and help you in other areas …they didn’t do that with the UFAs at that time ..this means that they woudn’t have to trade guys and keep them in the system …where as in now they are looking to trade players for better players !!

    They missed the boat AGAIN …bad miss management and evaluation of players …money talks !!
    they should have also taken the first round pick for MacCarthur that was Rumoured to have been offered and never traded Aulie for Ashton …W T F

  17. A bad GM makes 5 changes at the same time, a good GM tinkers with his line-up and sees what he can do with it.

    Toronto is in good shape; the Marlies made the AHL finals if I recall. That means your farm system is healthy.

    So Nonis is looking at his team right now. By the tenth game, he’s going to look at his greatest need. I’m guessing he’s going to send Scrivens back to the minors and he’s going to trade for Roberto Luongo or Jonathan Bernier, but I think it’ll be Luongo. Gustavsson was their best goaltender last year and now he’s backing up Howard in Detroit.

    Kessel will get his goals; he’s had this scoreless streaks before and then he comes out and scores 6 goals in 5 games and he’s back on track. And who knows what they do with a goaltender who’s a capable starter? Crypes, give Vancouver Frattin, Gardiner or Kadri, Gunnarsson and a 3rd for Luongo and a pick… you’ll have a goaltender for the next 7 years and then you can apply a further tinker in another ten games. If Phaneuf isn’t cutting it by then, trade him.

    If Nonis completely breaks down this team, do you think Belle and Rogers will like that? “Hey, guess what, I just basically threw in the towel for the season to get some prospects even though our farm system is healthy.” You might as well be telling the fans not to spend their money, and cutting into their profit margin. They HAVE to try if there’s still a season ahead of them and can only throw in the towel by the deadline.

  18. I believe Vancouver will trade for Kessel using Luongo and Panthers will offer up Stephen Weiss and both teams will refuse as they have enough feces in their locker room toilets…

  19. @ all you guys

    Thank goodness I didn’t say that the leafs should trade for Couturier ……I don’t see him going anywhere for any leaf player …no way !!!!
    While it would be nice to have that type of player that is not going to happen !!
    We will have to look elsewhere …sorry guys !!

    Leafs should be looking at :

    Ryan Johanson – Columbus Blue Jackets
    Colin Wilson – Nashville Predators
    Charlie Coyle – Minnesota Wild
    Jared Stall – Carolina Hurricanes
    Jeff Carter – La Kings
    Marcus Foligno – Buffalo Sabres
    Patrick Berglund – Blues
    Ryan Strome – NY Islanders

  20. So you trade one thing for another thing

    Let me explain something … Sundin failed because he didn’t have a winger … Kessel fails because he doesn’t have a centre, your just trading one issue for another issue. Kadri is finally starting to come into the game too. Things that Toronto need to address?

    1. MacArthur & Kulemin are not top 6 forwards
    2. They need an experienced goaltender as a mentor to the kids
    3. They need a big #1 centre
    4. Figure out the real potential of their D

    The Leafs have Lupul, Kessel, JVR, & Kadri who should all be good top 6 forwards going forward. They need to get a big centre for Lupul – Kessel and another scoring winger for JVR & Kadri. Then they can look at adding forward depth, likely retaining Grabo & McClement for sure. Then the Leafs need to go ahead and bring in a veteran goaltender to mentor Reimer.

    The Leafs should look to be traded Kulemin, MacArthur, & Bozak by the deadline this year, get draft picks, prospects back. Hopefully pick up either MacKinnon or Jones in the draft and add them to the pool that they have. Unless Getzlaf comes on the market, stay out of it … no big signings. Trading Kessel accomplishes nothing for the Leafs other than creates a problem of needing Kessel down the road.

    • @JJB
      I agree with you but also agree with backchecking. I think the truth falls on both plans depending how you look at the team. Backchecking is looking into the future and thinking the Leafs aren’t going to find that big center without offering up Kessel and he would rather have a Sundin type guy and be looking for a Kessel as opposed to having a Kessel and looking for a Sundin type center.

      I agree with you if you know you are going to get Getzlaf then you keep Kessel, if you can trade Phaneuf and get back a Couturier then again you keep Kessel but if you have no hope of getting that big center and Kessel is your best asset to complete that mission then you have to move him also based on his UFA status next year. I think you would agree having a Spezza, Sundin, Richards, ect is better then having Kessel.

      Either way, even if the Leafs were to get that center it only solves one of the three main issues with the current roster the other two being a Vesna goalie candidate and a Norris torphy finalist defenceman on board to be a real threat

  21. With Back checking calling for the trading of Kessel for some time and maybe rightly so I believe Nonis has some very big decisions to make, luckily he has a lot of valuable pieces to move or work with but in reality not a lot of time.
    Based on the players the Leafs have signed long term (past the 2014/15 season) and who I believe could actually be called their core players there are really only four. Three forwards Grabovski, Lupul and van Riemsdyk and one defenseman Liles. Every other member of the team will either be a UFA or a RFA’s next season or the season after.
    Now actually is the perfect time for Nonis to do his rebuilding and institute his plan and make that big decision regarding Kessel as well as Phaneuf.
    With Kessel having a limited no trade clause next season and probably expecting a raise does Nonis make a statement and keep him and get the other players he needs to prosper or does he shop him?
    The same goes for Phaneuf and his $6.5 million cap hit. He will not be willing to take a pay cut and may even want a raise. Imagine what that kind of money would bring as far as a free agent(s).
    MacArthur, Bozak, Steckel, Orr and Kostka are all UFA’s next year along with the expensive and buried Connolly. and so who do you keep and who do you move for other pieces?
    Along with the UFA’s, Kadri, Komarov, Gunnarsson, Franson and Fraser are RFA’s and who among these do the Leafs need to keep or again package for pieces?
    Goaltending is another huge issue. Scrivens is a UFA and Reimer is a RFA in 2014/15. This obviously is the year to see if either or both of them are the guys you believe can backstop the team not only to the playoffs but all the way to the Stanley Cup. Demote them? Trade them? Keep them?
    Burke is gone and now is the time for Nonis to shine.

    • The Leafs have depth with their up and coming players but just like their NHL line up they have some decisions to make and rather quickly. Of the 25 non-roster players listed on Cap Geek 11 are set to become either RFA’s or UFA’s next year and the year after that the will be another 6.
      What that means is that Nonis and his staff must decide who has a future in the organization and is worth keeping and who is not working out and should be moved.
      This could make for some attractive packages if they are looking at trades and also some tough decisions if some of these guys qualify for raises.

  22. #1 issue in Leafs land is goaltending.

    My league projections:
    Save %: 29th
    GAA: 29th
    Shut out/Game Stolen value: tied for 13th

    I have them projected to score 131 and let in 159. Now if you want to trade for more forwards to try to score more than 159, it means you have to score more than the best offensive team in the league (Pittsburgh, projected for me at 142 goals for).

    Now look at this intelligently: what does Toronto need to address now?

    • I’ll even use the pace they’re going at.

      GF: 134
      GA: 163

      Pretty close.

  23. So what sundin type player is available that you leaf fans want?

    I can’t think of a single primer center that might be available asides from getzlaf. Even more so if your return is kessel, it would have to be a very attractive package of kessel +prospects +1st round pick(s) I should think.

    Still want to trade kessel?

    • I go back to the Schenn for JVR trade. Most people would have thought no way Toronto could pry JVR a 2nd over all pick out of Philly for a defenceman that is struggling. Well it happened.

      There could be certain teams with an abundance of centers that may want to part with one to have just Kessel in return. I’d rather see Phaneuf moved for a top center but failing that then Kessel needs to be the bait.

      • I’m not saying it’s impossible… you have no idea with Holmgren.

        I’d trade for Couturier in a heartbeat for Phaneuf. But it won’t be that simple. Phaneuf would have to go to Philly with a young guy (Colborne?) while Couturier would go to the Leafs with a Meszaros.

        • I do that deal in a heartbeat. I don’t think Colborne is a future number one center. He seems like he will be more of a Steckle type player

      • Really? I thought it was a fine trade. Two players both struggling to live up to expectations (Luke 5th overall ; jvr 2nd)

        Seems fine to me. Especially considering the flyers were deep at forward and the leafs had an abundance of D.

        It’s not a great comparable trade IMO.

        • Interesting thought actually both Detroit and Philly need a top d man it is the position Toronto is deep in and phaneuf like kessel will be a UFa so this year would be perfect timing. IMO you’d get more from Philly then couturier for phaneuf too.
          Hard to replace those minutes though.

          • Whatever Detroit touches turns into gold. If they got Phaneuf, he’d probably get 35 points this year and be a +18.

        • JVR was not struggling his issues were injuries. Schenn’s issues were confidence. You saw what JVR did in the playoffs. He is a power forward and Schenn WAS a highly touted shut down man who lost his confidence due to playing Wilsons crappy system but more so because of his poor foot speed. He hasn’t improved in Philly so far but the season is young. JVR was star in this deal.

          • I agree with BeerGoggles about JVR having injury issues and now that they are apparently behind him he is starting to show what he can do. I think other than Wilson having a negative affect on Schenn the pressure of playing under both the spotlight and the microscope of Toronto amplified every mistake to the point that he started to doubt himself and he started squeezing the stick and making poor decisions.
            Admittedly, to this point, Toronto seems to be ahead on that trade.

  24. Alright then … let us go to hypothetical world for a moment. What team is dangling this top centre right now, what team has an abundance of centres and is looking for a winger when we know that centre depth is huge in winning a cup? Vancouver has been search for a centre for sometime now and can’t seem to locate one. The biggest draw is the Ducks … but they are playing very well and might have found themselves just with an off season and might be back in the playoff run and signing their guys this season. If they were to move Getz, they would be looking for that same top centre.

    Let’s look at this list for example.

    Ryan Johanson – Columbus Blue Jackets – Won’t be moved, one of teams crown jewels
    Colin Wilson – Nashville Predators – Could move, but not a #1 centre …
    Charlie Coyle – Minnesota Wild – Won’t be moved
    Jared Stall – Carolina Hurricanes – Not a centre, can’t even break the NHL
    Jeff Carter – La Kings – Not happening
    Marcus Foligno – Buffalo Sabres – Not a #1 centre
    Patrick Berglund – Blues – Not likely
    Ryan Strome – NY Islanders – Crown jewel behind Tavares

    Weiss, Getzlaf, Ribeiro, & Roy are all possibly available via UFA this coming off season, making them possible trade or free agent targets that could improve the club and Kessel wouldn’t be needed to be moved to get negotiation rights early, plus don’t forget the ‘whoo period’ now.

  25. Maybe Phaneuf would become a better player/person if he went to Detroit. He would not be a captain there nor would he be incharge of the music in the room, like it is rumoured he is in Toronto, and would have to learn how to get along with his fellow players, again something he is rumoured to have a problem with not only in Toronto but when he was in Calgary as well. But who would come to Toronto that could help the team as it now stands and who would eat up the minutes on the Leafs D?

    • I don’t know… Detroit holds onto its players like a 3 year old with his toys.

      They’ll want to send draft picks the other way.

  26. trade phaneuf
    detroit does not have a big center to trade back but could give leafs a couple good looking prospects like ryan sproul and thomas jurco or martin frk . any two of these guys plus a roster player. say justin abdelkader who is locked up for 4 more years and plays a gritty style and great defensively. abdelkater would fit in to carlyle s system.
    leafs need a rebuild because their core is not good enough to compete for the cup just good enough to add a little (a1 goalie ) to make the playoffs .
    i like the direction the sens are going . they drafted well , had a bunch of prospects ready and traded away veterans to open up spots and acquire more pieces they needed.leafs could use that model and reilly is a good start . might take two more years of drafting and developing but when the leafs get to a point where they have a solid young nucleus and are on the rise good UFA s will flock to toronto. until then the leafs will have to over pay for the lesser ufa s .
    leaf ownership has always been content to just entertain there fans never build a winner . thats why sundin never had a winger to play with but we had domi to entertain us. lets hope are new ownership takes a page out the bluejays build up and makes the needed moves to finally do it right .
    this short season wouldnt be too bad a time to tank retool and maybe get mackinnon in the draft to build around …amen

  27. Hey, look how well the Bruins did by getting rid of Kessel.

  28. Leafs are a joke. Not enough talent, no identity, no grit, no spirit. Every year delusional fans hope the team will get better. Not happening.

    I just don’t get why they signed Lupul. Why not trading him, Kessel and Phaneuf and build the team with quality prospects?

    Imagine the Leafs with Seguin, Hamilton, Rask… And more young guns.

    Kessel and Phaneuf are not the kind of leaders to show the way to kids anyway. And for those who believe the Leafs have good prospects… Sorry, but reality checks. Morgan Reilly is the only top prospect here.

    Boston will be a better team than Toronto for at least the next 5 years – thanks BB. It means even if the Leafs finally get into the playoffs, they are a million miles from the Cup. Remember the Stanley cup? It’s what a normal NHL team is fighting for. You wont get there with Phaneuf and Kessel. So why waste your time with these guys?

  29. Man, guess Leaf fans rule this site lol

    • Yeah they flock in greater numbers. We’re still puzzled by this migration.

      You get plenty of fans from all teams on hockeybuzz and they’re just as bad as Leafs fans for the most part. Here, at least there’s some degree of respect.

  30. the leafs need a getzlaf type player,id give up a first round pick for him and another player like grabo,or kulimen.if they cant get a number one center in this off season,trading kessel would be a smart move for younger players and draft picks same with dion let him go for good picks and rebuild the right way.