Latest on the Flyers, Oilers and Islanders – July 5, 2014

What it could take for the Flyers to move Vincent Lecavalier’s salary, plus analysis of the Oilers rumored interest in Islanders center Josh Bailey. 

Flyers face a cap crunch with Vincent Lecavalier.

Flyers face a cap crunch with Vincent Lecavalier.

CSNPHILLY.COM: John Boruk reports Flyers GM Ron Hextall may not have the luxury to taking a “penny-pinching approach” to trading center Vincent Lecavalier. While Boruk speculates Hextall might be hoping to get a player or draft pick in return for Lecavalier, it will ultimately come down to how much of his salary the Flyers are willing to retain. “After picking up a $2 million dollar roster bonus July 1, Lecavalier is now due $14 million more for the remainder of his term, and by terms of the CBA, the Flyers can only pick up half of that value,” writes Boruk.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: There was speculation of shipping Lecavalier to the Ottawa Senators, but their signing of David Legwand yesterday negates that possibility. It’s been rumored the Nashville Predators remain interested, but want the Flyers to pick up more than just $1 million per season of Lecavalier’s remaining salary. There’s also speculation they’re squeezing Hextall to include a draft pick or player in the return. By my calculations the Flyers must pick up $1.75 million annually. 

EDMONTON JOURNAL: Jonathan Willis observes New York Islanders forward Josh Bailey has been linked to the Oilers as a possible option to address their need for a center.  While Willis believes Bailey wouldn’t be a bad option for the Oilers, he’d prefer if they instead pursue Brock Nelson, provided the Isles are willing to part with him.


  1. I was thinking this would be the year for Ryan Strome to finally make the move to the nhl. But with the grabovski signing and bailey and Nelson you wonder if it could be Strome who is a trade chip and bring in a better d man

    • Tyler Myers and Torey Mitchell for Ryan Strome, Josh Bailey and Griffin Reinhart?

      • Come on…..really?

        • Umm no.. But something around Strome for Myers would be interesting.. Definitely something islanders should look at

      • Lol

      • While this proposal is excessively lopsided, one need only look back a few months to the Vanek/Moulson trade to realize it could possibly happen. Garth Snow is inept as a GM.

        • i totally agree cliff with your comment about garth snow,he’s just waiting to get fleeced again …like bergevin did when he stole vanek..i think somebody could poach strome for very little

          • wait a sec, Isles got a second pick which turned into Ho-sang and a nice prospect. what did montreal get? vanek. what did vanek do for mtl? who fleeced who?

        • whose teams were shopping goalies, made the same Snow comments. Fans whose GM wanted to move up in the 2014 draft, made the same Snow comments. How did those fleecing Snow deals work out?

        • Cliff you obviously know nothing about the Islanders or Snow. What do you expect from a GM with no money and when he offers money players take less to go somewhere else? I am by no means a big Snow fan but he doesn’t work on a level playing field with other GMs. I hated the Vanek trade from day 1 but do you know why he made it? Because often guys don’t want to play for the Islanders after a trade but after they do and see what it’s about then they sign extensions (Nabby, Lubo). Snow figured his only chance to get a free agent signed was to get him here first. Was it Snow’s fault that Vanek left 30 million on the table to make his wife happy? But I love how everyone thinks he will just give away JT for Joey Crabb and 5 round pick.

    • Ryan Strome is a versatile player, he CAN PLAY TO THE WING. NYIslanders will never trade a futur NHL star like him.

      • He could very well end up being one but I think at one point they were saying the same thing about josh bailey

        • @Aki..quit making things up. Isles drafted Bailey and said he had 60 pt/ 2nd line potential. He was rushed into the NHL at 18. He is a 38 pt forward, who is good defensively. He has never been called untouchable by with nyi fans or execs.

          20 yr old Strome has first line potential and was bought along slowly. He was on pace for 65 points on LI , splitting the season between the NHL and ahl.
          Isles are not trading Strome, anymore then they are trading Reinhart or Nelson.

          Myers is one of the most overrated defenseman in the league.

        • Ummm I think Pat has a little Leaf fan in him when it comes to overrating the tallent on a team that has been pretty weak for the past few years…dont get me wrong I like where the Islanders are heading but Nielsen and Bailey are maybe slightly above average 6 thru 9 types and potential is potential untill proven. If the young guys are untouchable and the top line is untouchable I doubt Garth is moving Kuli or Grabo now, the others are not getting top proven top 4 type d men. There are only so mamy spots on a roster.

          • I agree that Snow has built this team through the draft and is not looking to move the younger players AKA Strome, Nelson and Reinhart. That said will the Oilers move Perty for Bailey?

          • Shticky, I think you are confusing Nelson and Nielsen Brock Nelson is 6’3″ and had a breakout after JT went down. He is only 22 and has been a highly touted prospect and likely isn’t going anywhere.

      • I agree Dan. Strome has been working out with JT during the summers since before he was even selected by the Islanders. Bailey and Grabner are the most likely to go. Neilson could probably get the biggest return. I would be shocked if Strome or Nelson were moved.

    • @Aki the isles have an internal budget. They love those top prospects, with high upside, on cheap deals.
      Just months ago the Edmonton press focused on Griffin Reinhart to Edmonton and were laughed off by the Isles. Any attempt to get NHL ready Strome and Nelson would be laughed off.

  2. This thing goes on and on with Lecavalier. At some point this summer, doesn’t a player have to go so Philly can get under the cap? If it’s not Vinny, it has to be Grossmann or Luke Schenn. Either are expendable with Nick Schultz in the mix.

    Lots of buzz also on RW Peter Mueller signing with the Flyers… but they need help on LW! Unless he can play the left side, he’s buried under Voracek, Simmonds, Read, and possibly Akeson on the RW.

    • Nick Schultz doesn’t remotely come close in ability for Luke Schenn, nor a healthy Grossman. He doesn’t make either of them “expendable”.

      • I think you’re overrating them both. They are carbon copies to boot and lack puck skills. My preference would be Grossmann, but he’s 4 years older and is currently rehabbing a serious anklle injury. A salary must go, and if it’s not Vinny pick me your poison.

        • Actually, my preference is to see Vinny shipped out, but I’m worried that won’t happen this season. I smell a buyout on him next summer.

    • Nick Schultz is the veteran defenseman that was signed to be 7th on the depth chart because it makes more sense to have a veteran sitting half the time than have one of the kids sitting half the time. He’s not there to replace any of the top 6 (unless injuries take there toll) in anyone’s mind but yours.

      • This move would be out of necessity. Cap issue dude. They may have no choice. Someone has to go!

    • The Flyers are under the cap because Pronger’s $4.9 million is still being counted in that figure. On the last day of training camp the Flyers will magically make their cap problems disappear.

      As for Lecavalier, I think they should just keep him as opposed to the alternative; retaining almost $2 mill in cap hit for 4 years and losing an asset. He scored 20 goals in an injury filled year where he couldn’t find a regular spot in the lineup, what can he do if things actually go well?

      • um not as far as i understand a bruins fan so i know a little of this.the flyers have to be below the cap on the first day of season not training camp.they cannot write off pronger till second day of season .they will have to make a trade before official first day.

        • Yup I believe Shawn is right on this one. Teams have to be under the cap ceiling before the drop of the puck in the regular season.

          • Teams have to be under the first day of the season, but it does not necessarily require a trade. It may mean you send down a player or two on two way contracts for a game, as the flyers have done in previous years. However, I believe a few of those players are no longer on 2 way contracts, and thus cannot be used that way this year. We’ll see.

  3. Edmonton should simply go out & sign Riberio for nothing more than cash. He would make a solid offensive #2 C & costs nothing more than cash. This attitude issue Maloney raised is a concern but I hadn’t really heard of any issue’s prior.

    Most NHL players have some form of attitude issue’s but on skill Riberio has the ability to score 15 to 20 goals & 55 to 70 points. He got solid minutes & power play time in Arizona but 5 on 5 he primarily played with the likes of Moss & Klinkhammer, not a great recipy for success. This well Vermette primarily centered Boedker & Doan & Hanzal had Vrbata & Korpikowski. Riberio didn’t fit Tippet’s defensive 1st system.

    Riberio could probably be had for 3.5 to 4.5 on a 2 or 3 year deal. Arizona is paying him 10.6 mil over the next 6 years not to play for them, so he would take some discount at this point to get signed for next season. 2 years at around 4 seems like a perfect stop gap to me.

    • Ribeiro has had issues in the past. Look up his career with the habs. I met him once and he really seemed a bit arrogant but I have also heard he can be a decent dude( like buying drinks for the whole bar, ect). He would make a good guy as a 2-3 line center, that can handle the 1st line for short bursts. But I think that he will be signed to nothing more than 3 mill per just because of the negative hype.

      • thats what arizona is saying politely he has issues with drinking

        • Ummm could be more than drinking, lots of guys drink…alot.

  4. I hope to all that’s good that my flyers trade braybum cobum in this season of trades! amen

  5. The more I look at it, the more I realize the Islanders are actually in a better position then I thought. They can certainly afford to move Josh Bailey or even Brock Nelson for help on defense or the wing. Problem I see is the teams that would be looking at them don’t really have defense to spare (Philly/Edmonton). I don’t think the Islanders believe they will get that #1 guy, but a solid top 4 guy could really help the team a long way.

    Ideally though I would see if I could move Frans Nielsen while his value is really high from last season, Tavares, Grabovski, Nelson, Cizikas/Lee are fine up the middle with Strome/Bailey able to shift over in case of an injury.

    • if there looking for defense they could look chicagos way or bostons

      • Frans Nielson is 30 yrars old and has 1 decent season, no one is giviving up a top 4 dman for a 30 year old guy who has been around the league for almost 9 seasons and has 1 20+ goal year.

        • @hticky, so Nielsen has had one decent season? I guess the yr he finished 3rd or 4th in Selke voting was a fluke? The props from the press ov er the yrs , saying how underrated his is, are also flukes?
          Maybe you should comment on players you actually watch.

          • lol finnisjed 4th in the Selkie one year?….so did Jay McClement. Now I am not saying he is not a better player than McClemment just that he is 30 years old with 1 season of 20 plus goals. Guys peak at 30 and depending on who he would play with his point totals which are not great to start with will start to decline. I very much doubt some of the teams that maybe looking for a secondline center for some offense (like the Bruins for examples) are going to swap a player like Boychuk for Frans Nielsen. Maybe the Oilers and a player like Petry, maybe but I can not see the Islanders getting a good experienced top 4 type D for your average 2nd or 3rd line center.

        • Tell that to the NYI fan base lol. I am one however every person feels Frans is untouchable. Crazy. He has skills as I watch him every game but not for a Top 2 or 4 D, not alone

  6. Does Vinny to MTL make sense?

    Montreal just lost Vanek, Gionta, and Briere from their playoff run… they have the cap space and need some veteran leadership and scoring… also Montreal connection?? At this stage in his career does it fit him?

    • Chris, I’d say I doubt it. Vinny’s not an upgrade at this point on Desharnais, Plekanec or Eller (well, Eller’s potential), really. He might be equal to some of those guys, but without it being an upgrade, I can’t see the Habs bothering.

    • the habs have plekanec,galchenyuk,desharnais,eller,malhotra as centers so there’s no need for lecavalier that ship sailed along time ago…..the habs are looking for a top 6 forward ,a winger and i think the target is evander kane….i believe bergevin will land him at some point during the season…

  7. bailey nd probably grabner should go for excess Blackhawk d men. I want oduya

    • @Paul…isles are not packaging 26 yr old Grabner and 24 yr old Bailey for Oduya, who is only signed for one more season.

  8. I think Vinny could be a fit in places like Arizona, Nashville, Winnipeg or even Minnesota. Not for any real return, just that they could use a center with some size. I think the Flyers will need to pick up half of Vinny’s remaining salary and cap hit in order to get someone interested. Since Vinny has a NMC I think Hextall is going to have to be creative. Maybe offer a good young player with Vinny in a position of strength and take back a good player in a position of weakness.

    Something like Sean Courturier and Lecalvier to Tampa in exchange for Kilorn, with Philly holding back about 1.5 million in salary.

    Tampa has the room, and the talent on the left to make that deal, they would love a good defensive center, and Vinny loved playing in Tampa, if there is no hard feelings it could make sense. Philly gets a LW that they need, takes slightly the worst of the deal, but definitely dont’ get out and out robbed.

    Also, I was reading that Philly can only hold back a certain portion of Vinny’s contract due to signign bonuses, but according to Cap geek, “a team must retain the same percentage of a players salary and cap hit in a retained salary transaction” which reads to me like if Philly retains 50% of Vinny’s salary, 50% of his cap hit is also retained”. Which to me makes sense, since AAV after a trade isn’t normally affected by how much salary is actually being traded, why would the salary left on a contract affect how much AAV could be retained?

    I am not saying this is definitely the case, so if anyone has further clarification it would be appreciated.

    • signing bonus money counts when retaining salary

    • Tampa just bought out Vinny? They only have 1 decent natural LW on their roster (Palat), Killhorn is a natural center. Tampa is LOADED at center Stakos, Filppula, Killhorn, Boyle, Johnson+++….Why would they want 2 more centers in return? One of which they just bought out a year ago? Killhorn makes 2.5 million for 2 years, and is still controlled salary after that, Why would they want to add that kind of salary ($4.5 million at minimum) when they only have about 1 million cap space?

      If Stevie Y has moving to do, it will be on the defense side. They are currently hold 9 d spots. But I still doubt very much is is looking for a Vinny reunion.

    • Flyers will:
      a) not be trading Couturier…give your head a shake. He definitely will not be a throw in to take Vinnie in a deal where they retain salary…no way.

      If the Flyers retain salary, why would they have to throw in a player? The contract is only for 4 more years. Even if they buy out Vinnie, the salary hit is only 3 million at worst. Why would they have to throw in a top defensive forward who is also under 2 million a year?

      Not happening.

      Just keep Vinnie for gods sake..wave Grossmann….bye bye salary cap overage…fixed.

      • Love the give your head a shake comments born from complete arrogance not comprehension or knowledge.

        1) Used an example of how a GM could be creative to move a contract he cannot move otherwise. Nothing more, it was meant to start a discussion on a hockey forum that might be of some interest. My point wasn’t that Courturier and Kilorn had similar value, simply that for Hextall to move Vinny he will likely have to do something creative, like move a prospect or good player at one position, but can lessen the lose by taking back likely a lesser player or prospect in a position of need.

        2) the fact that I had two comments, one for each side saying that the deal wasn’t fair value, probably means it’s not completely ridiculous value wise. Again, not suggesting this is likely or even the best idea, just an example of what I was talking about.

        3) after reading the actual CBA document, I am pretty certain that Philly can indeed hold back half of Vinny’s salary and cap hit if they so choose. The wording indicates that the percentage held back must be the same, and each the AAV and Salary are then calculated from that day forward. So, if Philly does want to hold back 50% of Vinny’s remaining salary (7 million over the next 4 years), they will automatically hold back 50% of his AAV. There is nothing in the CBA that indicates that because his bonus was paid already that it will effect the amount of AAV that can be retained.

        4) Hextall will almost certainly need to make a move where he takes the worst of it in order to get under the cap. He is dealing from a position of weakness. He has almost no other alternatives but to lose out in some situation. He is currently 3 million over the cap, and he has to get under the cap for Day 1 before he can put Pronger on LTIR. He doesn’t have enough 2-way contracts to move some guys down on paper just to get under until he can use LTIR like he did last year. This puts him in a tough spot. Maybe it isn’t giving up a very good player, or holding back half of Vinny’s salary to make a deal, but somewhere on along the way Hextall is going to make a move that will not be to his advantage in order to get under the cap. Waiving Grossman will not work. Nobody would pick him up on the way down, and then that saves $925,000 in cap space. Not near enough. Then he is stuck having to risk bringing him back up later, which likely means someone will claim him and Philly will be stuck paying half his salary and got nothing in return.

        It will be interesting to see what kind of moves are made by Philly, Boston and Chicago to make things work. Chicago may have the easiest time as they have a couple of ELC’s and smaller more expendable contracts if they choose to go that route, but Boston and Philly will almost certainly lose something of value to make things work. It may not be a massive loss, but likely a RSA trade with no real return, a useful player shipped out for less than fair value, or even losing a mid round pick just to make a player enticing.

    • Oh…and that would be robbery…..

      The max the Flyers can keep is about 1.5 per year…is a center who scores 20 goals worth 3million?

      I think so.

      • Gary come on now how many of those 20 gosls were pp time? Minus-16? If thsts not enough even Grossmsn who you are do eager to thro on waivers has a 12 % higher corsi while Vinny is not on the ice lol . The only 2 players who have worse posession numbers than Vinny on the team are Rinaldo and Hall. He just about single handedly wrecked Simmonds snd B Schenn when he was on the icewith them. Their Corsi with him on the ice was sbout 42% (Simmonds generally is about 55%, very good posession player) without him when he was hurt or demoted that 2nd line was above 50…he is a 33 year old trainwreck that is only getting worse for the next 4 years my friend, if Hextall wants to get rid of him he is going to have to throw something in. Older slower and more broken down.

        • I don’t think they have to, Shticky.

          They should not have to eat salary and throw in anything…one or the other…..that is the compensation for Vinnie….Why keep salary if you are adding a player or prospect?

          The most the Flyers can contribute is around 1.5 million..that leaves 3 million for the team to pick up…that isn’t enough of a cap relief for 4 years in my books.

          The Grossmann comment is more that in my mind he is overpaid and easily replaced from within for a fraction of his contract. but someone will take him off of waivers…..That would provide over 3 million in cap relief without giving up a Couturier. I would prefer a draft pick back for Grossmann, but just dumping some of the overpaid dmen would help lighten the load of Vinnies contract.

          I’d keep him if it became more than retaining 1.5 million, and look at other options. There is lots of time until they need to be cap compliant.

          I don’t like Lecavalier’s contract, and did not want him on the Flyers at all. I do think he played injured for a good portion of the season. I don’t really think he has a spot on the team,

          The mess the Flyers have on their hands from Homer and his overpayment lifetime contracts will hang over this club for the next 3 years or so.

          There is no rush to trade Lecavalier and be forced to trade a player like Couturier. None.

          We are over the cap right now. We have 2 months to sort that out.

          In three years, if things go right, we’ll have 4 stud dmen, a captain in his prime, a goalie in his prime, and a team that has matured together. It is going to take time, and quick fixes will not work.

          They need to just face the fact the next couple of years are going to be rough…after that the future is very bright.

          • Philly is interesting because they have some of the best deals going in terms of forwards under contract for a good price, but they have the most inflated D salary in the League. They have the highest cap hit in the League spent on D, and even after Pronger being place on LTIR they will be right there with teams like Tampa, St. Louis, Chicago, the Rangers, and Montreal, with no where near the talent level on their current blueline as any of those teams. They do have some interesting prospects on the back end, but no one near being an NHL stud right now, and no one that figures to really revolutionize their current mix. I think they need to slowly tear down that current blueline and rebuild it. Holmgren being gone should help that process, as I feel that if he didn’t get the results he wants in the long run, he would look at the roster as a whole as a failure, rather than their biggest issue. I also think the lack of skill on the back end is one of the biggest issues with the Flyers inability to dictate the pace. They really don’t have a great skating blueline, and have very little offensive ability back there. Their best skating defenders are both over 35, and their youngest defenders on the roster are shot blocking tanks. All in all, that makes their blueline less mobile as a unit.

            That’s not to say that there isn’t value on the blueline in Philly, in fact i think all of their top 6 group would make the cut on most teams (although not all at their current price), the problem is the overall mix. When you already have Nik Grossman and Luke Schenn on your D blocking insane numbers of shots, I think trading for and signing the League leader in blocked shots, and one of the worst possession defensemen in the League is just a step in the wrong direction. MacDonald is a very good bottom pairing defensemen getting paid to be a very weak top 3 guy.

  9. I love these sportswriters!
    Jonathan Willis “prefers Brock Nelson.”
    The Islanders told Bailey they were going to try to move him, and is poor offensive production and inability to actually play solid centre for his fairly hefty paycheck.
    That is why his name is in discussions.

    • I wouldnt mind a deal that centered around a Franson for Bailey swap, other smaller parts may be involved but realistically I could see it beneficial to both teams.

      • @Shticky..the isles don’t want Franson in their top four. They need a defenseman, who can play defense. Cannot wait to see what Franson , with his sheltered mins and powerplay points, gets in

        • Its Josh Bailey, we are talking about here, dont get me wrong Franson is not the greatest of defenders but very good puck mover pp qb. and played second pairing minutes with Gardiner, if you think that you are getting much better for a player that could be cut loose for very little you are mistaken. Again you are looking for a piece that 29 other teams are looking for and offering up borderline 2nd/3rd liners who have developed rather slowly its not going to get you a Boychuck or top end top 4 guy.

          • @Sticky who are you kidding? Isles are in the same conference as the Leafs. I know what type of disaster Franson is when it comes to actual defense. I would take Hickey in a top four role over Franson..
            I cannot believe Franson filed for arbitration.
            And NY Newsday says the isles and Oilers had discussed Bailey to Edmonton. Google Bailey trade rumors and you will find both Edmonton and Calgary making offers.

          • You think the Oilers pr Flames are giving up Ferrance or Gio?…lol no. Funny you have issues with the Leafs top 4 and are eager for a d man from Calgary or Edmonton? As “a defenceman that can play defence” ? Again its Josh Bailey not one of the blue chips from the Islanders or Taveres Okposo…. enjoy Smid! lol

    • @Bill …Jonathan Willis also preferred Griffin Reinhart. Wrote some nonsense about how the isles who love Reinhart, should send him to Edmonton, but not expect that great a return. Notice Reinhart’s still a nyi?

  10. griffin reinhart brock nelson and ryan strome are all untouchable they arent even on the trading block lol retarded to even think that they would move their top 3 young guys

  11. @Shticky ….you implied there was no market for Bailey. I pointed two teams the press says made recent offers for Bailey. Isles are not pursuing a Franson trade. You think he’s a good blueliner? Keep him because I think he is a disaster in his own end.