Latest on the Leafs and Flyers – August 3, 2012.

Reasons why the Maple Leafs should avoid dealing for Jonathan Bernier, and it’s not too late for the Flyers to bolster their defensive depth.

SPORTSNET.CA: Luke Fox listed five reasons the Toronto Maple Leafs should avoid trading for LA Kings backup Jonathan Bernier. Among them, they already have a comparable goalie in James Reimer, the Kings aren’t desperate enough to move Bernier, and it would take away from “Option A” – Roberto Luongo.

Is Bernier the right choice for the Leafs?

SPECTOR’S NOTE: It’s a sensible list by Fox, but that won’t mollify Leafs fans pining for GM Brian Burke to do something – anything – to improve their goaltending. I have my take on the Leafs situation in my column

CSNPHILLY.COM: Tim Panaccio believes it’s not too late form Flyers management to do something to bolster their blueline, suggesting they could contact the San Jose Sharks about the availability of Dan Boyle and Douglas Murray, or the Montreal Canadiens about P.K. Subban.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Boyle might be available (provided he’s willing to waive his trade clause), but the Sharks would likely want a good young forward in return, and will probably ask for either Sean Couturier, Brayden Schenn or Wayne Simmonds. Murray, on the other hand, would be a more affordable acquisition, but the Sharks might not be willing to part with him. Forget about calling about Subban, the Habs won’t move him.


  1. For all the gripes I have heard over the last couple years about Subban, it seems that everyone and their mother wants their teams to try and pry him out of Montreal. Hopefully he signs a deal soon

    • As a Flyer’s Season Ticket Holder, I do not want PK Subban on the team. Yandle, yes. Boyle, sure. I would take injury prone Carlo Carliocavo.

      • why not, Slew Foot Subban would fit in perfectly with the Flyer goon mentality …

        • Goon mentality? You my friend lack brains. This is not the 70s

        • Ed,
          Let’s play the matching game similar to the one you failed in pre-k.
          Goon speed
          2012 1970’s
          Ok Ed I know this is hard for you but go the extra mile and think for once…

    • Not even the owners of the teams think that they can get established hockey players for cheap. and here its one post after another about how cheap we can get this guy or the other guy. HEY its not your money and owners are willing to pay big bucks and want established players on there team because it makes there team worth more $$$$$$. Its all about money folks and its not your money.

  2. Yes, lets pass on Bernier…then when he turns into an all-star goaltender, we can look back and say “Gees I`m happy we passed on that kid….could you imagine what that 1st round pick could have turned into…this is the luck of the Leafs just ask fans about the Tuuka Rask trade…this kid is the real deal.

    • Yeah, and what happens if Bernier becomes another Raycroft or Jim Carey? Then there’ll be a outcry for Burke’s head. Bernier has only played 56 games, and has potential. But potential doesn’t get you wins, proven success does. NEXT!

      • and don’t forget Bernier has a very good defense in front of him. Don’t think he would look as good with Leaf “D” in front of him.

      • How do you think these proven wins guys got to were they are. Somebody gave them a chance based on their potential. You want proven you pay for it, you want potential you take a risk and most teams in the leafs situation would rather take the risk and reward route than over pay for a guy that has hirtorically had good regular season success in streaks and a terrible playoff. So before you think what the best move is consider where all these players came from and that was by getting a chance.


    The Subban deal is a low ball offer and should ofend him greatly!

    How many teams are looking for a $3.5 to $4.5 million dollar D man like him …Oilers,Flyers, Wings, Ducks, Wild, Bruins, Devils ECT ! and are willing to give him this amount of money …hes a thorough bread and is the Canadiens best D man …Markov is done….which leaves Subban as the man for the Habs…. there is no comparison AT ALL!

    He should be making at LEAST Luke Schenn money …if Iam Subban I walk or demand a trade …Defense men are very much coveted right now and at least 12 teams will pay him $4 mill or more for 5 years with no issues ….today !!!
    What are you thinking Habs ???
    Pay or trade that simple, they can get a good trade out of Subban if they balk at paying him properly!


    I dissagre with Tim Panaccio…Homstrem doesnt work on time lines he would do a deal in his sleep on the eve of the All Star game if the proper chance presented itself …I think there are still some good hockey deals to be made that can help the Flyers …they just need to know which upfront forward they want to part with ….Read….. Simmonds or possibly Cotouriere if its a big deal they cant pass up ….I believe they have one more strking deal to be had.


    I agree with the Bernier idea … I had posted here last Sunday about Berniers NHL track record for those who donyt read my information ….

    he was drafted in 2006 and has only played 48 NHL games no playoff games its on the cusp of the 2013 season …Lombardi is asking to much and he is completely unproven and Scrivens or Reimer could end up being the same ….the only way Bernier gets into 25 plus games or even gets a sniff at 30 games is if he goes to a basement dweller Oilers, Columbus Islanders Leafs and such….. no if and or buts about it. The Leafs need a Backstrom type goalie from the Wild, if you can not work out a better option.

    The Leafs should be more concerned with moving out the crap players they are paying too much and make room for the team ready youth to move in and sign a Jason Arnott and a Matt Gilroy after trading out the dead weight for leadership and veteran presence along with a stanley cup ring in the room!….IMO

    • I agree with you, the Leafs have a lot of dead weight on the contract end. Lombardi and Connolly are off the books at the end of the year. With 9m in current cap space The Leafs are in no dire need of dumping the contracts cap wise. The widely known spots where they need to fill are first line center and in goal. Neither of which are on the UFA market this year. The only way the Leafs get either of these is through a trade (if the JVR at center pans out then there wont be a real need to get a first line center). The big area is in goal. The Leafs aren’t getting a starting goalie without giving up something in return. They should be able to get Luongo for a minimal amount because Gillis needs to dump him and his contract asap but for some reason the Canucks still want a hockey trade caliber of return.

      • When you want to think of a trade you first need to stop being a fan. The question is does Luongo want to go to the Leafs?
        Lets say he does.
        What now makes you think that its not going to be a hockey trade? Because Gillis is best budies with BB? If Gillies was to dump Luongo it would certainly NOT be to BB and the Leafs.
        So if the Leafs want a high caliber goalie such as Luongo they will have to pay . Gillies is after Floridas 1st round pick and he is being patient If TO wants to up on that than BB will need to pick up the phone and make a hockey trade for Luongo. Gillies is not in any rush. Where BB needs Luongo to save his job. It may be a package deal but i think Gillies wants the 1st round and Gardiner?

      • I dont Luongo wants to goto the Leafs, he would put them in the play offs for though

    • Comparing Bernier to Scrivens and Reimer shows your inability to grasp the game of hockey. Take off your blue coloured glasses bud. Bernier is out of their league on potential alone. He was the AHL player of the year a few years ago and was a high first round draft pick. As for only playing 48 games so far, the Kings shouldn’t be penalized because they are bringing him up slowly and letting him develop. Which BTW is the ONLY way to handle a young goalie. Oh and NO Lombardi isn’t asking too juch, look at what Varlamov got last year and his games played, gaa and sv% were identical to Berniers. Remember Bernier is only a rfa next summer, DL isn’t the desperate one Burke is.

  4. It would appear nobody will be trading with the flyers this year because everybody and their brother apparently won’t accept anything less than Schenn or Couturier. I don’t see why Homer needs to trade for a D man anyways. He brings in Schenn to fix the problem of not having a right handed D man and to replace some of the physical play we lost when we lost Pronger. Not a bad play when you figure replacing Pronger is a damn near impossible task. Now he needs to replace Carle but I don’t see losing any of our young potential for a replacement being a positive. There are still some decent d-men on the FA market that could be had for pretty cheap.

    Carlo Coliacovo – He’s a solid all-around defenseman, and probably would make fewer mistakes in his own end then Carle used to make. Only flaws are he won’t be able to handle the minutes Carle did and you’ll be lucky to get 60 games out on him due to injury.

    Matt Gilroy – A mobile puck-moving defenseman who is also a right handed shot, However, he can find himself out of position from jumping in the rush.

    And a stretch…

    Scott Hannan – The guy is getting older and is not the player he once was but if philly wants a sound defensive defenseman to help keep the pucks away from Bryz this is a good option. You won’t see much offense from him but he is still good in his end

    Well sorry about the long post but I just hand the rant about how Philly does not need to go the trade rout.

    • I posted this same thought a couple of days ago. Instead of moving a young asset like Couturier, Read, Simmons or Brayden Schenn, it would be make a lot more sense to offer a few UFA defensemen one-year deals at a low cap hit. Scott Hannan would probably be a quality choice to fill in a bottom pair spot with a low maintenance workhorse veteran. I wouldn’t waste time on Colaiacovo, even 60 games is optimistic for him. Gilroy might be worth a chance, but if he’s open to a two-way contract as a sign of good faith, it would be a plus for Philly. Rozsival, Spacek and Colin White should also be taken into consideration since all they need is a #5-7 defender. Would a top-line blueliner be good? Of course, but at least with FA guys all you have to part with is money.

    • I think Matt Gilroy is one of the most underrated Defensemen in the league. He has a right handed blast from the point, he can move the puck out of his own zone extremely well, he is sneaky in the offensive zone, he has great hockey IQ, he’s physical when he needs to be, and he blocks a ton of shots. He would be a great #4,#5,or #6 for Philly.

  5. PK’s contract will be solved as soon and once the race for Doan is concluded. And I agree, he will not be moved.

  6. Burke should try and pry Vokoun out of Pittsburgh for a very small price.

    • Uh, I think Pittsburgh acquired Vokoun for a reason, and I don’t think that reason was to flip him to another team. =\

      • That actually could be the case, since it’s assumed Thiessen could handle a modest backup starting schedule with decent results. And it’s very obviously a common tactic for the Pens to stockpile certain assests solely for trades. Much as they’ve done recently adding wealths of young D prospects, and have done in the past with many young defencemen Letang, Orpik, Whitney, Goligoski- just to trade 2 of 4 away for crucial assests in Kunitz and Neal.

        If a deal is there, the Pens won’t hesitate for a second to move a backup goaltender to better the main team. But their price won’t be small, not in this goalie market. Vokoun’s almost as comparable an option as Louongo, who’ll get a king’s ransom via trade. The Pens know that, and will ask his appropriate value.

        • This isn’t the case with Vokoun though, who signed a NTC into his two-year contract with Pittsburgh. I believe the Penguins want him for insurance against another MAF meltdown or injury next season.

          • Actually Vokoun only has a modified NTC in his deal, which only enables him to choose where he can be traded, it doesn’t prevent it happening altogether.

            As per “Limited and modified NTCs and NMCs simply mean the player’s contract includes specific terms for the clauses, usually allowing the player to specify a no-trade list of undesireable teams or a trade list of desireable teams.”

            Vokoun was brought in specifically to relieve Fleury from full-schedule fatigue. Nothing more, so he’s hardly indespensible. The coaches have even mentioned it themsleves when he signed. They’re in no way pinning thier chances on him. He’s just there to take 15 or so early season starts to keep MAF from being overly taxed like last year.

    • dumbest post of the day, congratulations

  7. Ummm, Slap shot (and many others out there) You do realize that was a bogus article on the “low ball offer” to P.K. Subban right??? Too many people believe everything they read.

  8. I don’t know how often it happens in the NHL but what are the odds that the Flyers make a move for Bobby Ryan and then during the season move him for a blueliner? Would Ryan come with a NTC? Would he demand it?

    • Ryan would only come with his existing contract, which doesn’t include a NTC. He can request one in his next contract, but that’s still a few years off.

  9. PK Subban is a tremendous talent who seems a bit immature on the ice at times. Seemed like a great guy at the draft when his brother was selected and he was interviewed.

    Habs would be foolish to trade him or let him go on an offer sheet.

  10. Da Broons

    Chris Pronger is one of the cockiest and most arrogant players in the league on and off the ice …but has developed into an all time woirk horse and all time great in the position …..same as Patrick Roy and many other players …..its the on ice talent you can not ignore from Subban …he does it all and will be a force for years …he has the FIRE to be fantastic every game!

    The Habs really need to BUCK up here or put out a tender and see what they can get in return ….

    I think the Oilers would be the absolute perfect trading partner for the HABS on this one …Pajaarvi Omark… Petrell… Whitney…Theburt ….to just name a few good players that would be beneficial to the Habs in a deal and help both teams get what they want!
    Id dare to say Subban would be worth 2 of those players in a deal! Edmonton would give up nothing out of those guys as most have not been regulars due to the mionors or injuries but are fantastic quality ….Petrell would be great with Eller and Plekanec and Theuburt on D in return ti fill Subban !

    Just a thought dont roast me …just conversation here !


  11. @slap&shot
    It will take a lot more than that to get Subban out of Montreal because they’ll want quality not quantity. But you gotta think the Habs would be salivating at the possibility of reuniting yak and Galchenyuk so why not send Yakupov to habs for Subban plus maybe Paccioretty or bolleau (pardon the spelling)and a first

    • Yakupov hasn’t even played a game in the NHL yet but he is worth a good(potentially great),young defense man, a young thirty goal scorer and a 1st round pick? That’s craziness.

  12. Offer sheet to Subban ?

  13. Montreal would match any realistic offer sheet, they have no money issues like say Nashville (why that offer sheet almost worked).

    I think the offer to PK was a semi low ball offer, but not that bad. He’s got potential pouring out of him, but you don’t pay for potential.

    3 million for 3 years which keeps him a RFA when that’s up. Gives him the time to show that he’s the real deal, and once he does, he’ll get his money and term.

    And just FYI, cause players like Luke Schenn got overpaid, doesn’t mean MB needs to start doing that to.

  14. @ HABS _FTW

    Id say you misunderstood my comparison …If I was an agent Id be saying HEY…. Subban is better than Schenn and it is a great comparsion to the money ….I never said Schenn was over paid and I dont think so at less than $4 mill I am just saying that Subban is in that ball park with out a shadow of a doubt ….

    Iam very surprised at the Habs fans here undervaluing Subban …this guy is a monster on the ice give him a five year deal for sure close to $4 mill per season no doubt …IMO …Id have no problem taking him on the Leafs …he’d be our best defender and at less than $4 mill per would be an absolute steal !!

    Subban is not worth an Offer sheet …hes worth a hockey deal in a pakage of assets and NHL ready players …I mean you have to look at your trade options here if you are th Habs ….you just insulted your top defenseman with an offer less than $3 million ..thats garbage for his calibre … he brings it all time …how can you give a new contract to a guy like Markov who has missed 3 years with a very serious knee issue and pay him top dollar and hes at 75% of his talent and is 1 hit away from ending a career …doesnt make sense ….Habs need to get serious here or move the asset to rebuild arounnd something else with multiple players in the deal ….it sounds like to me that Bergevin doesnt want Subban and low balled him to make the move to ask for a trade …to make Bergevin look like the good guy here …because we all know how emotional Subban is ….he will look at that and say WTF …get me out of here …and Bergevin would not be the guilty party in the media for trading one of the best players on the team and better young defenders in the league with amazing upside !!!

  15. Slap & Shot…..who is Homstrem in Philly????? Did they get a new GM??

  16. I think a 4 year 15m contract for Subban is fair

    • All good @Slap & shot

      All I’m really saying is.. PK is good.. and the potential to be better. Personally I love the guy (in a hockey kinda a way). That being said, he’s not that amazing of a d yet. He needs to pay some dues.

      Any 4 year contract will be out as I think that’s gives him UFA status. 3 for 3 is a fair number if he wants longer then 2 years. He’ll still have another decade to cash in after that, but for now, as a bleed till I die Habs fan.. he needs a couple of years to find his place.

      Taking home 9 million on the way isn’t so bad.

  17. @ …REALLY ???


    I know sorry dude …I ve been trying to correct my mistakes as per all you guys …Holmgren ….sorry man .
    Iam try not to just type and send in between all my work so quickly …Ive been trying to spell check but work time doesnt allow all the time have to hope for the best and hit send sometimes!! sorry !
    I am trying to take everyones advice to better my posts

  18. @ Big Boss

    Id say thats fair with a bonus structure to hit $4 mill every season …thats a good deal for both parties!

  19. If the Flyers need a Dman, they need look no farther than the Sabres. The Sabres need scoring and have a plethora of defensemen. The Flyers need defensemen and have a plethora of scorers.

    Looks like a perfect match to me.

    • The Sabres do have some good young d in the system, such as McNabb, Pysyk, and Brennan. However, the Flyers want a current top pairing dman, so Myers would be the one they’d want. Problem is, that will never happen as he’s their cornerstone big dman for the next 10-15 years. So, unless the Sabres are comfortable replacing Myers with McNabb on their blueline, I’d say there isn’t a deal to be made with the Flyers and Sabres.

    • Oh, I might as well also point out that; if the Flyers weren’t willing to part with Schenn or Couturier for Weber .. well Myers won’t get one of them either.

  20. Nice work on the piece.

  21. @ Bullwinkle

    The Flyers are obviuosly after a bigger fish in the D man area….some UFAs of interest would have to be Collaiacovo Gillroy and Gargnani….having seen Buffalo play a lot the past few years ..the Flyers could really use a guy like Gargnani …he loves to jump in the rush and plays really fast up and down hockey …not too many D men like to skate like this guy …surprised Vancouver let him go….he would be an awesome addition as the Flyers love to play skating hockey ….not sure if he has signed anywhere but its a great play and nothing to give up as well …but the fact that Philly hasnt picked up anyone leads me too think that they are still looking at something bigger ….as they probably should …but if I had my choice for just a signature and not have to give up an asset id look at this guy very seriously!!!
    He came to Vancouver with Kasian in the Hodgson trade I was totaly surprised how fast this guy is and his attention to the offensive side!

    Just an FYI

    • Gragnani has already signed with the Canes .. and the Flyers have a dman like him already; Gustafsson.

    • Gragnani looked good during the 2010 playoffs for Buffalo and based on that, he was a starter for half the year last year – then was shipped out. Anyway – he is with Carolina now and good luck to him. Your right, if Philly doesn’t want to give up anyone – they can go after Campoli, Gilroy, Colaviaco or even Cam Barker. Buffalo does have a glut of d-men and I’m sure their arm could be twisted to take Briere or Hartnell off Philly’s hands in exchange for Leopold, Pardy, Finley etc. But you never know – I’m just not so sure that the Sabres would want Briere back – that ship might have sailed.

  22. @ Real Poulsty

    Thanks Id hadnt checked to see was just thinking out loud …good pick up by the canes …didnt catch that


    • I do share your confusion on why the Nucks gave up on him so quickly though. After watching him in the playoffs a couple of years ago with the Sabres, I really thought he’d stick as a top 4 pairing with most teams in the league. His value fell pretty fast and hard. Not sure what happened to him.

  23. He plays good both ways …fast …good back checker,but maybe its his finishing ability in point production!
    Thanks for the info ..I totaly missed the canes signing him …mmm…should have done a quick homework check before posting!

  24. Gragnani ….. Coach V does not like to trust or use his young players.

  25. (Sorry, wrong spot in the blog, Spec, we need to be able to delete our own stuff.. anyways)

    All I’m really saying is.. PK is good.. and the potential to be better. Personally I love the guy (in a hockey kinda a way). That being said, he’s not that amazing of a d yet. He needs to pay some dues.

    Any 4 year contract will be out as I think that’s gives him UFA status. 3 for 3 is a fair number if he wants longer then 2 years. He’ll still have another decade to cash in after that, but for now, as a bleed till I die Habs fan.. he needs a couple of years to find his place.

    Taking home 9 million on the way isn’t so bad.

  26. I would make a offer to PK and Im offering him a role of tape to shut his pie hole…he is way to cocky for what he provides ,there is a reason he was low balled from the Habs ,it was their way of slapping him in the face.Its sad the way teams over value players ,at least the moose is happy today ,not so much for the Canucks ,man that blows LOL…

  27. Yes he is cocky. But if you think the Habs offer is a slap in his face then P.K. can slap back. Throw a high dollar offer sheet to him and force the Habs to deal with him. They can easily match anything, especially if they banish Gomez. Can’t even imagine the uproar if he walks.

  28. Canadian King,

    Bernier and Reimer are equals, sorry, no upgrade. Stats from WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 2011.Compare apples to apples.

    REIMER 4 games 2.04 gga 920 save percent

    BERNIER 3 games 2.01 gga 917 save percent

    Best case scenario they compete to start. That’s it.

  29. If I am Holmgren I would look into one year of Rozsival and re-sign Bourdon. Got to get rid of Lilja somehow. Rozsival is not the same d-men he once was but still good to play top 5 min, still moves the puck well and still blocks shots and at times physical. He is also right handed shot. . Play him with Meszaros, pair Schenn with Timmonen and leave Grossmann with Coburn.

    I have no idea why Tim Panaccio thinks that Murray is available.