Latest on the Maple Leafs and Sharks – January 18, 2012.

Who could be possible trade targets for the Maple Leafs? Is the Sharks Ryane Clowe among them? Read on for the latest!

THE GLOBE AND MAIL: James Mirtle reports trade talk has hit a frenzy in Toronto, where the recent scratching of Maple Leafs like speculation defenseman Luke Schenn would be a healthy scratch prior to last night’s Leafs-Senators game led to wild speculation he, along with center Nazim Kadri, were on the trade block.

NATIONAL POST: Michael Traikos recently reported on potential trade targets for the Maple Leafs, listing Philadelphia’s James van Riemsdyk, Colorado’s Paul Stastny, Anaheim’s Ryan Getzlaf and Bobby Ryan, Tampa Bay’s Ryan Malone, and Columbus’ Derick Brassard and Jeff Carter.

TORONTO STAR: Damien Cox also weighed in on the “who could the Leafs target?” guessing game, dismissing the possibility of landing Getzlaf, but suggesting Malone as a possibility, noting the Leafs have goaltending and depth they could ship to the Lightning.

TSN.CA: Darren Dreger reports via Twitter “In general, I’m told trade discussions with the Leafs are currently very quiet” with the Flyers.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: The anticipation is Leafs GM Brian Burke will pull the trigger on a deal within the next two-three weeks, which is ramping up  the speculation as to which players he’s pursuing, and creating a minor frenzy every time a Leafs player is a healthy scratch. Dumbest rumor of the day: Schenn and Kadri to Anaheim for Getzlaf.

Of those listed above, Malone could be a possibility, provided he’s willing to waive his movement clause, but I would be very surprised if the Bolts would be interested in one of the Leafs average goalies, especially when there would be better options available via trade or free agency this summer. Brassard reportedly is off the trade block, while Carter and van Riemsdyk are sidelined with injuries. No one seriously believes Getzlaf or Ryan will be moved, and the only way I see Stastny being shopped is if the Avs fall out of playoff contention, which they haven’t as of yet. It’s also possible Burke could have his eye on players no one is speculating about, like he did last year when he landed Joffrey Lupul.

No truth to Clowe trade rumors.

MERCURYNEWS.COM: David Pollak reported yesterday Sharks forward Ryane Clowe would miss yesterday’s game against the Flames with an upper body injury. Sharks goalie prospect Alex Staylock, meanwhile, has been given clearance to play after missing 11 months after a nerve in his leg was severed by a skate in a freak accident. Staylock’s availability could influence any decision on goalie Antero Niittymaki. Pollak also took to Twitter yesterday to dismiss bogus speculation Clowe might be dealt.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Hat tip to GJ Berg for the Mercury News link. The Clowe rumor was started by a phony Nick Kypreos twitter account, which briefly sucked me in before I discovered it was a fake. As Pollak noted, the Sharks aren’t going to move a forward with Martin Havlat still sidelined. If they did, I doubt it would be Clowe.

62 Comments

  1. Luke Schenn was not scratched for last night’s Leafs-Sens game. Mirtle needs to check his facts

    • Actually, the mistake was mine, not Mirtle’s. I’ve corrected it.

  2. Stupidest rumour Spector?? The leafs will get either Ryan or Getzlaf, guaranteed. When Burke wants his man he’ ll get him. And the trading past between those two clubs makes this trade very very real.

  3. Although I think Reimer and Gus will be better goalies in a couple of years, I too doubt TB would want any of them now. The Bolts need a goalie who can step in right away and be a difference maker.
    As much as getting Getzlaf is the stuff of dreams right now, I can’t help but think there still is a chance that Burke can land him between now and next years trade deadline. The two GM’s have a solid history of trades. If he’s available, I can see Burke being at the front of the line (so to speak) But I agree with Lyle, it would take much more then Schenn and Kadri. (if those are even names being discussed) I believe if Burke can’t pull the trigger on a blockbuster this year, he’ll probably scale it down for now and do a more minor trade. He’s shown too much patience so far to just start shipping young prospects out the door before they hit their potential.

  4. @ Moleafs hope your right but i doubt Anaheim is trading Getzlaf or Ryan, i dont believe any of the big players mentioned over the past few weeks are going to be traded maybe Jeff Carter, IMO Burke should just stay the course and clear some cap space (get rid of the garbage on this team) and load up on picks and prospects, then try to sign Parise and the make some trades in the summer or next year, i dont think Burkie is ready to trade theyre top end prospects yet, this would mean missing the playoffs again this year, but the team is improving and were still young,

  5. Moleafs, give it up buddy. I will say this once for you. TORONTO DOESN’T HAVE ANYTHING OF VALUE THAT COULD LAND GETZLAF. I will bet you anything that TO doesn’t land Getzlaf or Perry or Ryan, aslo Nash, Carter and Clowe………Schenn is having a terrible year and just got a bunch of money, Kadri is a borderline bust, and your goalies are average at best. So what do you have that could land a superstar? And NO the Ducks/Jackets don’t want a bunch of picks/prospects

  6. RC…good thought in theory but Parise has stated he wants a big contract but most importantly he wants to be on a cup contender, Leafs are not a cup contender. Look for Parise to sign in LA with his other team USA buddies (Johnson, Quick and Brown)

  7. Moleafs, do you have a trade rumour website? I’m going to dump this Spector guy and start listening to you. Surely schenn and kadri would get more than just getzlaf. Maybe throw in colbourne and a pick and you can get BOTH!

  8. I agree with Lyle when he says that Toronto wont land Getzlaf or Ryan. Toronto fans (some) think that Kadri is the next big thing. He was draft 3 years ago and he is now finally getting some playing time in the NHL?!?! Doesnt make sense to me when you are a top 10 draft pick. And dont fall for the “if he wont get top 6 minutes, we will keep him in the AHL where he is able to get top minutes” That just means, “This guy cant even crack our top 9. So lets let him “season” in the AHL for a while.” Scheen and Kadri might get you JVR, maybe…. But never would it land Getzlaf. I am not a Toronto fan by any means but I think they are heading in the right direction. Burke has changed that team around pretty well in the past three years. They look better and better each year. So why try and mortgage the future with a trade that can potentially hurt you in the long run?

    So that Toronto really gets Getzlaf for lets say Grabo, Scheen, Kadri and a #1 pick. That is two roster players, 1 bubble player and a 1st rounder. You get Getzlaf… then after next year, his wife wants him back in So Cal and he leaves as a UFA. Then you will have nothing to show for it. So like I said, stay the course and keep building they way they are.

    Oh and stop with all the “we got Lupul from you” crap. he wasnt playing hard here and wanted to be traded.

  9. I agree with everyone here giving the business to @Moleafs. Praising Brian Burke the way he did above makes me laugh a litte “When Burke wants his man he’ ll get him”…..give me 2 examples of this. If anybody has learned from Brain Burke since sitting in the high chair in Toronto is that he never overpay’s for anybody, simple as that. What could Toronto possibly offer up that would pry Getzlaf or Bobby Ryan out of Anahiem, of course, without giving the farm? Simple answer is: Nothing. Any team would have to give 2 very good players and maybe a pick to get Bobby Ryan….to get Getzlaf….better players and picks. If Toronto learned anything from their past deal with Boston: don’t give up a first round pick….I don’t need to go through Tyler Seguin’s stats to prove the point here…have a look for yourself.
    As a Flyer fan I have admit I’m happy to hear talks between the Leafs and Flyers have gone quiet. I never liked the “rumour” anyways. JVR for Schenn…my reaction to that is the same punch line they use on NFL Sunday Morning: C’mon man! Realistically the Flyers need someone to temporarily or permanently replace Chris Pronger. A big hammer on the blueline, a huge minute eater (22+ per game), a guy that can kill penalties and would love a power player quarterback as well. Luke Schenn is not that player. If the Flyers were to trade JVR, I’d rather see him in a deal for the player I just described instead of Schenn. JVR has all the upside to be a force in the game, he hasn’t yet, but addition by subtraction is the mentality by even suggesting his name on the trade front.

  10. @CanadianKing

    Since when has LA been a cup contender? They havent even been close to the finals since 93′. Parise wants to be the “man” and on the Kings, he wont be the man. I could totally see him going there… Cause they have the cap space and talent to lure him there. But that doesnt make them a contender. They will fall off the second half like they always do. But I have to say, I love Quick. The kid is a solid goalie that doesnt get the credit he deserves. Bernier gets more PR tim that he does and he is the backup.

  11. @Puckhead

    The next thing you know, Toronto fans are going to say the Komi is the guy you are explaining! Then tehy will say Kmo for JVR straight up will be the best deal for both teams! LOL I love you post by the way.

  12. “Dumbest rumor of the day: Schenn and Kadri to Anaheim for Getzlaf.” Isn’t that the dumbest rumor of every day?

    As for the discussion above about Burke landing Getzlaf, I think it’s entirely possible. He may not have the assets now, but he could start collecting the assets by trading off players. The problem is that Burke would essentially have to give up hope on making the playoffs.

    The other problem for Burke is that the Duckies are starting to get on a roll. If they appear as though they can close the gap and make the playoffs, then any major roster shakeups are off the table.

  13. If tampa is to acquire a goalie, I dont believe they’d settle on Reim or Gus…I really think Schneider would be a target of Yzerman after the season. Another option would be Harding. I would say either of those would be an upgrade over Reim or Gus, and not saying either is a slouch.
    I’ll have to agree with Moleafs there Specs, I would say that’s a solid proposal and if I’m Burke and I have a chance at Getzlaffor that package, I take it. Although if I’m Burke, I’m really looking at left handed playmakers.
    Clowe would be nice, but agreed on the fact that I cant see SJ parting with him. But the Leafs need a centre than they do winger.

  14. Rhetoric is a dying art…

    The Bolts want for a goaltender is way too late in the season for them to make a move without a magnificent run to the playoffs. Yzerman was great last year with key pick-ups, but this year he’s dropped the stick on filling in the holes in his line-up or getting proper insurance. I know he’s using the Detroit model, but the right GMs make all the little deals that get some depth on their squad. I hear all this talk for Nittymaki but I believe it’s completely unfounded as he was nothing better than an average goaltender and probably still is. He needs another journeyman, so he could deal for two guys ready to step up and start rotating them in and out for the last few months of the season while TB is pretty much out of it (10 pts in a 3pt/game league is hard to make up). Yzerman really needs to get in touch with how well minor leaguers play and use the eyes of his scouts to work on TB’s depth. Their starpower is pretty much set.

    I hate to pick on Reimer, but I knew he wasn’t the next stud Toronto was hoping for JUST YET. His problem is that he has trouble tracking the puck and he plays way too deep in his net because of that; I’m worried that his eyes aren’t good enough. His model right now should be Tim Thomas (and Thomas has similar problems tracking pucks until he switched his cage); he needs to learn the confidence that Thomas has to challenge shooters and find comfort and confidence in his crease to move around it, because a lot of pucks “hit him” and he needs to use that to his advantage. He’s not a lost cause; he just needs to develop his goaltender intelligence.

    Getzlaf for Kadri and Schenn. I can’t say it’s that stupid. It’s not likely to happen, but trading a 5th overall and a 7th overall, both with good capability (especially Schenn) for a number one center having a bad year isn’t exactly a bad deal for Anaheim. Wouldn’t call it a great deal for Toronto, though.

    But yeah, Burke looks at players you don’t expect. No one expected him to pick up Phaneuf or Lupul and they were two of the best deals he’s ever made as a Leafs GM. I think he’s keeping a close eye on the Devils and the Avalanche (Ryan O’Reilly, not Paul Stastny). He’s got his eye on somebody!

    Quite frankly, I’d rather have Schenn and Kadri on my team than Ryan Getzlaf right now. I’d rather have JUST Schenn alone on the Leafs than Getzlaf right now.

    Ryan Kesler is a possibility.

  15. Ducksfan93, have you never watched hockey players progress? 3 years ago isnt long for a player to break into the NHL. Brayden Schenn was taken ahead of Kadri in the same draft and has played less games than him and has less goals for a better team. Everybodies ranting and raving about Kyle Turris whose even older and has done even less. This kid broke 100 points in the OHL, and is a PPG player in the AHL, give him 2 years and you’ll know exactly what you have.

  16. When he wants that man he gets him ie. Kessel , Komi, Phaneuf , Lupul , I can keep going. Not saying there all good moves but when he truley wants someone he will get him. Peace out :)

  17. he wanted Tavares too right ?

  18. I think the Leafs have the assets, but it’s going to cost them some of their younger players.. plus multiple picks to get Getzlaf. Easilly 1 if not 2 first rounders.

    Big young centers are impossible to trade for, but if you’re going to do it, you are going to pay through the nose to do so. Regardless if Getzlaf is worth or not is another discussion, but Anaheim would command a ton. You would to if you were going to trade him.

  19. How is Schenn (Luke) having a terrible year? He’s on pace for his highest point total, and he’s a +3. His shot totals are down this year and he’s probably asked to pass it more. And his minutes are probably down (though playing against better players may have affected his +/-)

    He made a good play the other night against Buffalo, I think, when he banked it off the boards on purpose for Grabo to pick up the rebound and shovel it in.

    And I saw someone make a list about what the Flyers need to replace Pronger. Schenn is all those things except a power play quarterback, certainly the best available one. He’s not a dummy on offense either; he’s not Shea Weber, but the Flyers aren’t going to get Shea Weber. Nobody out there can replace Pronger. If Schenn was available, no matter what team I was, I’d make room. And I don’t think he’s overpaid at all.

  20. what I want to know is when are the OV trade rumors going to start ? his goal scoring and point production is down , he is logging less minutes , playing with less enthusiasm & Washinton in general is not where they should be based on the talent this team has.
    OV is acting more and more like a left coast rock star player .
    The cost and term of his contract is hefty but this one may come at us out of the blue.

  21. The Leaf”s are in a bad place. There close to a playoff team but not close to the cup. There young players are good but not great. If they finish middle of pack then they dont get top picks. There goaltending is average, they need a top line center. They should have blown it up long ago and not just fiddled with it. Burke has a mess to clean up but not sure how he will handle it. What I do know is that it will be fun to watch.

  22. MJR- just have to comment on one thing you said, if the leafs landed getzlaf for schenn and kadri alone you Toronto fans would have reason to dance in the streets. That would be the worst trade of the last ten years. The ducks would be fools to part with a point per game huge center with a Stanley cup ring for a third (maybe second) liner and a 3-5 defenceman who’s taking this year off to count his money. Schenn is not irreplaceable. In fact a steady defence only defenceman is easy to acquire than a offensive defenceman and a top line forward. I just thought your suggestion that that trade wouldn’t be that great for the leafs needed some rebuttal, and I’m sure most of you know I’m no leafs fan. If they pulled that off though I would be astounded, jealous, and would have a new view on The ducks management. That view would be “THEY ARE COMPLETELY INSANE”. Getzlaf, if available, is worth a top line player, a depth player, a top prospect, and a first rounder. This player is a franchise cornerstone impact player insert other cliched name for “friggin incredible player” here. You cannot say the same about kadri (I actually laughed a bit when I typed that) or Schenn. NOT KNOCKING THESE GUYS just saying that them combined isnt close to getzlaf level quality. I would take schenn but after another year of solid service, unless he came really cheap in the trade dept. As for kadri, … Meh. He reminds me of a smaller less gritty foligno. Prob a 30-40 point guy in a couple years. You know the guys ppl would want from Toronto would be cheap but seviceable defencemen and your top prospects like gardiner, frattin, colbourne and the leads better be saying “off limits” to those guys. Bottom line, of the leads want to land top talent it’s going to cost top prospects and a first round pick. If they do ditch another first round pick it better be in a package for a getzlaf-like player because I don’t know if Burke can handle another backlash like he did for the Kessel trade. Especially if the team he trades with gets propelled to the Stanley cup again.

  23. MJR; I have to reiterate what SmielmaN said because your point is so ridiculous. If you’d rather take Schenn alone than Getzlaf you’ve clearly never actually seen Getzlaf play, or you have your leafs fan blinders on and think all your players are way better than they are. Getz is top 10-20 players in the world….Schenn, well he’s maybe in the top 200? Sure he’s got potential, but Getz isn’t exactly old. Kadri may turn out to be a good player but he doesn’t have enough value. It’s stupid to even speculate on a trade for Getz because it absolutely won’t happen.
    IF the ducks shop him other teams will almost certainly offer more enticing packages. So yes, the Schenn and Kadri for Getz rumor is the most absurd rumor of the day/week/month/ and probably year.

  24. May be wrong but I doubt that Murray is even thinking about Trading Getzlaf, Perry or Ryan at this point.
    He most likely is spending his time looking at what RFA’s he has on his team and which ones he signs before trading deadline and which ones he doesn’t want to keep and who can he trade to and what can he get. If this continues to degrade Murray can look at trading big pieces at June draft or later as all three are signed for next year ( Ryan beyond that), so what’s the hurry ?

  25. Ducksfan93 & Canadian King, why is Kadri a bust? He’s a good prospect. Maybe not future elite, but I think you guys are being way to hard on the kid. Just because every Leaf fan throws him in a package for a trade, doesn’t make him garbage. Most players from that draft year are just entering the NHL. some (like Ellis) haven’t even made their team yet. Are they garbage? Should they be pawned off for a broken stick and a bag of pucks?Consider this,
    Brayden Schenn (5th overall) 25gp 2g 4a 6pts
    Nazem Kadri (7th overall) 44gp 6g 11a 17pts
    Listen, I’m not trying to be a homer here. But considering where his peers are in their careers, why is Kadri a bust? Explain your logic.

  26. The problem with trading Established payers for prospects and draft picks is that it is expected that if you are trading an established player you get back quantity that has potential to be equal or better than the established player you traded. Example if Ducks traded Getzlaf then they expect back SEVERAL players who in the FUTURE may be very good. Face it, it is a crap shoot when getting picks and prospects.
    What the point in trading a star for someone who in 3 years may, I said may, be as good as the guy you just traded ? You also get more because of the delayed usage principal. Leafs got to use Kessel right away whereas Boston had to wait and see (a) where the draft picks would be (b) who was available and (c) how many years do they have to wait until they will be useful players. If Seguin turns out no better than Kessel, and Hamilton is a bust then Leafs win the trade but if Seguin and Hamilton both turn out as good or better than Kessel, then Boston got the best of the trade even though they has to wait on their investment return. Too many of these trade guesses are for players teams don’t want for players that everybody wants

  27. I agree that it’s too early for Kadri to be considered a bust. I always think about Bobby Ryan, taken right after Crosby. No one even knew who he was for about 3 years because he was developed the proper way. When he finally did break into the league he was ready, responsible, and all around developed. Each prospect is different. For the same reason, I wouldn’t be surprised if Kadri is not moved at all.

  28. Ducksfan93…Actually every single hockey pungit out there had the Kings either in the SCF this year or in the final 4. They started off slow this year and now are really turning it on. Since Sutter has arrived they have only lost ONCE in regulation, and are one of the hottest teams in the NHL over the past dozen or so games. Yes Quick is awesome and worthy of Vezina nomination this year, but his great numbers can be partly attributed to his awesome deep d core in front of him. Since DS has taken over the Kings have beaten teams like the Canucks (twice), Chicago and the Caps to name a few all of which are considered cup contenders. Take your Duck fan glasses off and you will see a good Kings team that is very much a stanley cup contender and still one of the youngest teams in the league . that a guy like Parise would want to play for. BTW Parise would be the man in LA cause they desperatly need a top line LW to complement Kopi. Don’t misconstrue his words, by thinking he wants to be the only good player on the team.

  29. Nobody should forget that burke was able to get phaneuf and aulie for stajan, hagman, mayers and ian white. no such thing as dumbest rumor

  30. DurtMChurt….I never said he was a bust, maybe go back and re-read my post. I said he is a borderline bust. The Kid has done Sh!$ in the NHL, and once again in his recent call up had ZERO points in 5 games and is now scratched AGAIN. Its funny you compare him to Schenn who is also having a terrible time breaking into the NHL and not looking good at all but fail to compare him to the elite youngsters like Seguin, Duchene, Kane, Hall, Couturier etc, etc. So ya back to my point, Kadri has very little to NO trade value right now, quit being a homer.

  31. I’m not a Toronto fan. NJ Devils since 1990. Was inspired by their conference finals playoff run that ended in game 7 against the Bruins when they got wiped out by Edmonton.

  32. the thing with kadri is how much hype is tagged to the kid. no one outside of toronto fans really knows what his value is (even some toronto fans have no clue)… that always helps in trade talks

  33. MJR,
    have you actually seen schenn play this year? he’s playing so well wilson doesn’t have a choice but to scratch him every once in a while. yep, loads of sense. luke is great, luke has potential. but he’s had the potential label for a while now. he cashed in on potential. but really… cement hands, suffers from brain cramps (positioning, breakouts). not sure the return is very high for a big, young, hitting right-handed d-man that doesn’t play d very well. rule of thumb is buy low, sell high. i’d say we’re nearing the high… toronto doesn’t have the patience (or staff) to develop him for another 2-3-4 years.

    if burke can get something decent for franson (essentially luke without the hitting), that’d be as impressive as getting rid of toskala or beauchemin.

  34. Agree with Alforducks.

    Trust me, I do not want to reignite the Kessel , Seguin and Hamilton deal debate.

    Burke did not anticipate his team being in 2nd last place when he made the deal. He was gambling that he was going to be giving up something like Jack Campbell and Patrick Nemeth.

    I know….Who? 11 th round picks which is where Dallas ended up selecting.

    Trades are always a gamble. If it isnt potential that is not lived up to, it could be an injury.

  35. the player Burke should covet is Matt Duchene ( IR right now ) , not sure Colorado would give him up but a nice package of players might do it . The other big question is are the Leafs going to re-sign Grabovski? if ‘yes’ there is a surplus of 2nd line centers

  36. I really can’t see Anaheim moving Getzlaf, Perry or Ryan. They are starting to play better… even though they will not make the playoffs. Anaheim would really regret any moves like that if either one of them 3 were traded. They were the best line in the NHL last season… I don’t think they forgot how to play hockey.

    Getzlaf is a true #1 centre… not every team has one. And if he was traded to the Leafs, Anaheim would not get a #1 centre back.

    Also don’t think SJ is shopping Clowe. Makes no sense at all.

    Also don’t think Stastny goes anywhere.

    As for the other names mentioned… they could be a possibility,

  37. You think that minutes defensemen are easy to acquire? Hell no. Out of the thirty teams out there, I’d say only about a third of them have a competent first pairing. Schenn is near his first-pairing potential, and there’s still a year or two before you can decide the kind of player he’s going to be.

    How many Scott Stevens’, Zdeno Charas, or Chris Prongers are there out there? Not comparing Schenn to them, but saying that Schenn could become a force like that. Neither Stevens nor Pronger came out of the gate delivering bone crunching body checks; that’s something they developed out of competing for a longer period of time. These are my favourite kinds of team players because it takes pressure off the forwards to score every shift so that the forwards can play their position responsibly.

    Make a list and check it twice; many D-men in this league, but none are in Pronger’s league in terms of presence. Lotta slick skaters and passers out there, some people who can parry off second and third lines, etc. But at 22, Schenn is still finding himself. We’ll know who he truly is when he’s 25 or 26.

    And if we’re arguing Getzlaf’s worth (seeing that he’s playing with some of the top forwards in the league), my stats analysis put him at 1.08 weighted against the average player (1.06+ = first line/all star) so that’s great for last season. Currently he’s at 1.00 (and a -16) which shows that right now, he’s playing at a league average and that if you subbed in half of the league’s centers at his position, they could do the job. People say Ovechkin had a “bad year” last year, and he was still a 1.11 (nothing compared to Crosby’s 1.20, but still).

    (Numbers mean: 1.0 average, 1.03 second line, 1.06+ first line for forwards. For d, it’s different; most teams have a sub 1 playing top pair as a stay-at-home d-man).

    I’m not dumb enough to think it’s going to last all year; it’s not. But how are you going to trade a guy whose stock is low like that and expect a good return? Other GMs would be smelling blood. So either Murray gets less in return than what he expected or the other GM gives Murray what he wants but is taking a big risk.

    This is what truly makes the trade too difficult for either GM to make.

    So I reiterate… if I had a choice, I’d rather have Schenn on my team right now who might be at 0.97 vs. the average defenseman in offensive production, but still capable of playing big minutes and shutting down the other team’s better players. And a second pairing d-man still sees a LOT of minutes.

    If Murray’s dumb, he’ll trade Getzlaf while his stock is low. But most GMs aren’t Gauthier’s kinda stupid.

  38. MJR, I like how you figure Getzlafs stock is ‘low’ yet Schenns isn’t due to surrounding the talk about him with ‘ifs’ and ‘maybes’.

    I would venture to say that if the 2 GMs were talking Murray wouldn’t even want Schenn as part of a package for Getzlaf. If Getzlaf stock is low, then Schenn is in negative territory.

  39. MJR, not sure where to begin. Your “analysis” is a little silly to me. Stats only mean so much, especially for non-wingers. Getz is an unbelievable player regardless of his stats. You say he’s playing with some of the best forwards in the league, but it goes both ways. He makes those players better just as they make him better. Schenn is not in the same league. Yes, he’s 22 and still developing, but put it this way; he is not enough to fetch JVR on his own, so it would take way more than the leafs have to get Getzlaf.

  40. Same arguement as always.

    Leaf bashers saying Kadri and Schenn are a bust at 21 and 22 yrs old and Leaf fans including them as the package to land Getzlaf.

    Time to move on to a new subject and new possible trade senerios…

  41. I’m saying I wouldn’t make the trade, not that Schenn for Getzlaf would be a fair deal (without other Leafs involved). I couldn’t quantify the deal. If I were Burke, I would leave Getzlaf alone, especially since my team is sitting high in offense (7th) and his is sitting low (23rd).

    I wouldn’t have traded Schenn for JVR either. Do you think Philly turned down the deal or was Burke just hesitant?

    If I were Jersey, I’d seriously consider giving up Zajac for Schenn. Jersey’s getting solid down the middle, but hey we’ll take another shut down guy (if we could dump Tallinder or Volchenkov). Playing Jersey will be a forward’s nightmare. We’ll even sweeten the pot and give the Leafs Volchenkov (which is just a salary dump, pretty much).

    You can call it “silly” analysis but if you’re going to go with your gut on picking players and ignoring stats, then you can’t relay a rhetorical statement about a player other than by adding adjectives, as convincing as that might be to the simple minded.

  42. something ive heard is Grabovski to Blackhawks for Kyle Beach and Frolik… any ground to that rumour? I know the hawks need a #2 center

  43. Just want to note I never said Kadri or Schenn were busts. But top level talent, first line centers with size, point per game stats, and a Stanley Cup ring are worth a WHOLE HECK OF A LOT. Much more than Kadri and Schenn together. In fact, in my post I said I would take Schenn, but only for cheap. The Gauthier comment was a bit out of left field. I know he has made questionable moves (the biggest IMO was listening to the Dr. that said Markov would be good by Nov. 2011 *rolls eyes*), but right now he is in the middle of a half rebuild. Cole, Emelin, Diaz, Wiz last year, Pleks signing, Gorges long term, Leblanc/Tinordi draft, KEEPING PRICE. Those are quality moves at quality prices. Kaberle (still could be traded at the deadline, might need him if markovs done), letting wiz walk, letting halpern walk, not burying Gomez, those are moves that frustrate me. Getting rid of Cammy broke a few hearts, but saves 3 million and brings in much needed size, grit, and same level of goals (Cammy wont reach 38 goals again). Oh, and forcing me to buy another jersey because my Cammy one has to be retired now was a bad move (but more on me, when will I learn to put my name or a legend on these jerseys!!!).

    Anyways, point is MJR that I think you might be in the minority regarding the value and potential of L.Schenn thats all. If he turns into Pronger or Stevens in 5 years then you had some great eyes for potential. Maybe a change of scenery would help him develop better in a better system because the Leafs (not leads, damn iphone) aren’t known for their strong D system. Who knows. I think that because of the number of teams battling for playoff spots and the surprising decline of some teams we will see a good amount of deals this year at the deadline.

  44. I’m not saying stats don’t mean anything. But when GM’s target a player they don’t study stat sheets, they physically go and watch the player. The point I was making is that there’s a lot of reasons for players stats and they only tell part of the story (like Cheechoo in San Jose). The intangibles are more important, in addition to salary and terms, how that player specifically will fit into a team’s system, etc.

    Statistical analysis serves SOME purpose, but not to the level you took it IMO. Just seems like poor justification for a lopsided deal to me. The Schenn for JVR trade was uneven because JVR is better, not worse. I think that may have been the basis of a deal until JVR got injured, but toronto certainly would have added a player or pick to the mix. Anyway, moving on.

    I have not heard a Grabovski for Frolik and Beach rumor. As a Blackhawks fan I’d happily take that deal. Frolik is solid, nothing special, but I’m losing faith that Beach will ever be an NHL player. Every opportunity he has gotten he just looks too slow and mostly out of place. I can’t imagine he has a whole lot of value at this point. If teams are targeting Blackhawks prospects they’re likely looking towards Jeremy Morin, Ben Smith, Andrew Shaw, Jimmy Hayes, Dylan Olsen, all before Beach.

  45. Hard to quantify a player being better.

    Is a player better because he adds more for a team?

    Or is a player better because his type of play isn’t common?

    I understand the points on Getzlaf. I just wouldn’t be able to justify a deal being done. Especially not for what might be asked.

    I’d study the stats sheets closely as a GM. I wouldn’t touch Rick Nash, for example, because his skills are great, but his statistics lack (I don’t care what team you play for… good players make people good around them). Stats can lie, but so can skill. I’d need justification from both.

  46. Jim How, interesting bit . I could see this deal. I have not seen Beach enuff at the pro level to say whether he’s got a shot in the next year or two. But he has power forward size and is a former 11th overall pick so why not take a chance , especially if the Leafs don;t intend on signing Grabovski anyways

    Diceman , if the Hawks trade Morin or Shaw they’re nutz , they will play with the big boys next year. You do point out they have some good up&comers – I’d include Shawn Lalonde on D too . And let’s not forget about Saad in a year or two

  47. Getzlaf has 7 goals in 44 games….that’s right 7. Why is it so unbelievable that the Ducks would trade a 7 goalscorer for 2 decent young players and a first rounder? Getzlaf is playing horrible and has an enormous contract, the ducks should jump at the chance to get younger and a lot cheaper. If Burke is foolish enough to trade all his future for this overpaid underachiever then let him. And how is Shenn having a horrible year anyway leading all D-men in hits once again.

  48. Yea I agree I wouldn’t wanna trade Morin or Shaw…..really any of those guys except maaaaybe Ben Smith though I do like him still. I just think other GM’s would be more interested in those guys than Beach. Beach may benefit from a change of scenery. He’s just so low on the depth chart in terms of up and coming prospects that I don’t see him getting a real shot for a long long time…..forgot about Brandon Pirri too, another guy ahead of Beach.

  49. Canadian King, really?! I’m the homer? Mr. Look for Parise to sign with my cup contending Kings. Lmfao! That was the biggest homer comment on the page!
    And you found it funny that I would compare Kadri to Schenn? Didn’t Schenn and your third line winger land you Philly’s first line center? And why didn’t I compare Kadri to the elite players you mentioned? Because I never called Kadri elite, I said he was a good prospect and you were being to hard on the kid.
    Do you ever stop yourself and think before you voice an opinion? It was really a dumb rebuttle. I can’t believe I have to argue this. But to further prove my point here’s a fact. 23/30 of the first round picks in 2009 have yet to play 100 games. Does that make them all worthless? I really can’t say if Kadri will ever be a big name in the NHL, it’s really too early to tell with most of that draft class. Outside of JT, Hedman, Duchene and Kane, that year hasn’t had time to prove anything. But they still have trade value.

  50. MJR I agree with your points, but when I say intangibles I’m really not referring to skill OR stats. More hockey IQ, willingness to go to the tough areas, puck protection, positioning, etc….That isn’t a knock on Schenn because I really haven’t seen enough of him to comment on those details. But to me Getzlaf is just about as dominant with the puck as anyone in the league, and so if I was Anaheims GM it would take a big time offer to get rid of a player like that.

    As for a guy like Rick Nash, I get what you’re saying but would add something Mike Cammallari alluded to before he was traded, which is that you can’t underestimate a winning locker room. There was an enormous difference in the Blackhawks 2010 and 2011 teams (obviously personnel wise), but also because of the locker room environment. I personally think that if a guy like Rick Nash went to a winning team with guys who came to the rink excited to play every day it would make a tremendous difference.

  51. MJR, i don’t think anyone is saying is schenn is done and will never amount to anything. he just isn’t worth his weight in gold (or trade possibilities) in the current team and the current win now mentality. he’s certainly nowhere near chris the condor pronger territory (even if CP is nearing his sixties). lots of room for improvement. and if it happens (big if), it’ll likely be in a few years.

    As for getzlaf, i think everyone has seen what this guy is capable of, and capable of sustaining for seasons at a time. underperforming the way he is, it seems like the right time to try to acquire him (makes more sense now when the stock is low than when the guy is injured… bourque is one of the rare trades where main components are injured).

    and nash? on a team where scoring isn’t an issue, nash brings a lot more. pk for one, size and puck control along the boards, more speed. i mean underperforming in columbus says more about columbus than nash. after carter (an incompatible fit at center at best), who have they had? vermette? brassard? please

  52. good board, spector. way to get the people going.

  53. @MJR I No way is Ryan Kesler being traded anywhere.

    Jeez, you TO guys are on crack.

  54. Ya but where would the nhl, its fans, reporters, and hockey websites be without the toronto maple leafs and leafs nation. 54 posts. If you need confirmation ask lyle. enough said!

  55. Parise is going to sign with the Sharks after that dump havlats contract

  56. DurtMCHurt – good rebuttal —

    My 2 cents…….. Burke has made trades that I thought would never have occured — so I haven’t a clue as to what is up his sleeve. And with all the rumours that I heard as of late, would place every elite player on our team….lol
    I don’t forsee Tampa or Carolina being trade partners (at least not in the season) so no to Malone, Ruuto or Stall. A couple of rumours I viewed on Hockeybuzz (not certain which one – as there are so many) had Burke waiting med reports as a trade was looming but trade did not occur…. maybe Carter, Clowe, JVR — (just don’t see any of those happening)…..Even if it were possible taking a risk on an injured player – at a high price just would not make sense

    Anaheim connections — would it be wise for anaheim to trade any of their top 3 — I guess if the price is right and it makes sense to thier organization than great…….but it is going to cost — Toronto should follow Detriot”s format as their system is the standard that teams mirror – they are always competitive.

    Burke has done a great job, lots of depth. I hope he stays the course making a trade that is best for the team and not just a playoff push. I am a Leaf fan and I can wait another year to see how well our youth is performing……. I agree with comments listed above that development of players is the key some take longer than others. The leafs have a bright future ahead — and numerous players in the system that have great potential..

    Ok — I am ready for the critics……

  57. SmielmaN your rating of players is pretty far off. Where do you live? I ask because I’m curious as to what games you watch and where. Getzlaf’s value isn’t as high as people think… in fact most players are not worth what we fans think… want an example? Look at the Kovalchuk trade to NJ or Hossa or Heatley, Roy, Thorton, etc.

  58. I’m not a Toronto fan… again.

    The reason I mentioned Kesler is because Vancouver can now afford to trade him if the right pieces came back. I don’t think they’ll move him, but he’s not as untouchable this year as he was the last.

    Donnybrook, you’re right; Getlaf’s value is actually a low stock right now (compared to what it should be), which is why it doesn’t make sense for the Ducks to move him.

  59. CT, you are right, Getzlaf has 7 goals. You are a genious! I guess you havent figured out that Getzlaf isnt a shooter. He is a pass first cente. Hence the reason the guy averages 48 assists a year other his career. (and that is counting his Rookie year. He is a 20-30 goal scorer a year. He isnt the type of guy t put up 50 per and 70 assists. This league isnt about goal scoring Centers. The guy is big at 6’4″ 220, and is as physical as they come. He can dominate a game like few others in the league (when he wants to).

  60. @CanadianKingg

    Dont worry, my Ducks glasses have been off for a long time. I see it how it is. The Kings have the trend of falttering down the strech. It is a proven fact. As the Ducks are slow starters to every year. (minus 06-07 season) So relax with your baseless comments. I give the Kings prop all the time. They have a good team. I am not a homer who hates on the Kings just becasue of the rivalry. I have my opinions just like everyone else. And I dont care about predictions from “Actually every single hockey pungit out there”! They are worng 90% of the time anyway. No one picked the Ducks to make the playoffs last year and they surged to make it to the 4th spot int he west.

    So take a step back and relax. The Kings will be just fine. But remember, they have only been to the dance once in they history. A fact is a fact.

    Oh and one of my buddies is a huge kings fans. He has been a season ticket holder since 75 and he has been to more Stanley Cup games rooting for the Ducks than his favored Kings.

  61. This whole Kadri=Bust is over done here. I never once said he was a bust. And those who are comparing B. Schenn as comparison to Kadri is far fetched. Schenn never had a spot with the Kings due to the depth at center they have had for the past 3+ years. You arent going to put a top 10 pick as a fourth line center. But when the leafs have been as bad as they have over the past few years, Kadri should have been able to over take a spot. And he hasnt. Hence the reason why they had to over spend on Connoly.