NHL Morning Rumor Mill – December 30, 2013.

Latest on Mike Cammalleri, Daniel Alfredsson, Nazem Kadri, Chris Phillips and more.

Could the Penguins have interest in Mike Cammalleri?

Could the Penguins have interest in Mike Cammalleri?

EDMONTON JOURNAL: Jim Matheson believes Pascal Dupuis’ season-ending knee injury could force the Penguins into the trade market. He believes the Flames’ Mike Cammalleri would be a good fit with the Pens…He considers Ducks forward Devante Smith-Pelly a “perfect trade target” for the Oilers, comparing him to former Oiler Mike Grier…Matheson also expects the Detroit Red Wings to re-sign Daniel Alfredsson if he decides not to retire after this season.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: Wouldn’t surprise me if the Pens target Cammalleri, though he’ll likely have several other suitors leading up to the March trade deadline…Smith-Pelly is having trouble cracking the Ducks this season but I don’t think they’re ready to move him…Alfredsson’s played well with the Wings this season. Remains to be seen, however, if he returns for one more year.

TORONTO STAR: Dave Feschuk hopes “trade bait like Jake Gardiner or Nazem Kadri” could fetch the Maple Leafs a respectable return.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: The New York Post’s Larry Brooks claimed the Leafs wanted to move Kadri. Now a Toronto pundit considers Kadri trade bait. Leafs GM Dave Nonis claimed earlier this month he’s not shopping Jake Gardiner but rumors persist he’s available. I don’t doubt Nonis is getting calls about Gardiner and Kadri but I believe it would be a huge mistake to move either player this season. Any offers they get right now will simply be quick fixes, which won’t help them long term.

I realize some Leafs fans who regularly comment here will dream up interesting trade scenarios, but they’re not gonna happen, folks. 23 teams are carrying $5 million or less in cap space, meaning trades have to be dollar-for-dollar right now. The trade market probably won’t open up until early February, before the Olympic trade freeze. Even then, I doubt the Leafs will get many offers for Gardiner and/or Kadri which improvestheir lot this season.

BOSTON GLOBE: With Dennis Seidenberg gone for the season with a knee injury, Fluto Shinzawa believes the Bruins defense needs help.  Though acknowledging the trade market has yet to develop, he suggests Ottawa’s Chris Phillips and Philadelphia’s Andrej Meszaros as trade options.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: If the Bruins decide to deal for blueline help it won’t be right away. They’ll take at least a month to evaluate their young defensemen and see how well the blueline performs in Seidenberg’s absence. It’ll also help to wait as the trade market could improve by early-February.

CSNPHILLY.COM: Tim Panaccio speculates the Pittsburgh Penguins could have interest in Flyers Avalanche forward (and former Penguin) Max Talbot as a replacement for the injured Pascal Dupuis.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: (Engages sarcasm mode). I’m sure the Flyers would be delighted to help their hated rival by shipping Talbot to Pittsburgh (sarcasm mode disengaged). Whoops! Joke’s on me, Talbot now plays for the Avalanche. Still don’t see the Penguins getting him, but their chances are better with the Avs than with the Flyers. 

70 Comments

  1. Max Talbot doesn’t play for the Flyers anymore. He is with the Avalance now.

    Trading guys you don’t have? Now that is a great trick.

    Shows how up to date Philly media is with the players on their own team.

  2. I stand corrected.

    The Philly reporter’s article acknowledged Talbot was with the Avalanche.

    It was just a Spector oversight.

  3. Talbot is with the Avalanche…….someone needs to research more

    • Or Talbot could do something that may remind people he is still in the league…may say as much about the player as it does about someones research. 4 goals and 7 assists in 38 games is not exactly memorable.

      • Talbot could be clutch in the playoffs …just having him in the room with the young guys as a Stanley cup winner and game wining goal scorer is worth his time there …there is some intangiables to be had !

        • You are bang on and I love this guys work ethic. He won game 7 for the Pens back in 2009 and the Pens would love to have him back.
          The problem is the Avs acquired him for the same reason the Pens would love to see him return. Perhaps part of a bigger trade between the two teams if the cap permits.

      • Well, he has been doing more than Clarkson’s 3 goals and 5 assists. Sure Talbot has 9 more games played, but Clarkson is certainly not showing any signs of upping his production level.

        All of you forgot the Downie/Talbot swap already?! Wow

        • Really thought he did his job pretty well the past couple weeks was close to getting 2 last night and has been a real jerk around the front of the net causing havoc …honestly ya its a terrible contract for that type of player but his game has been better the past while, people are deceiving themselves if they thought he was going to score 30.

  4. Lyle is right on the Leaf trade front. It has to be a dollar for dollar otherwise it’s just a pipe dream. Even if the Leafs can somehow fit a new players salary under the cap this year they have hampered themselves with these five and seven year deals so with Phaneuf now about to join the seven year club the Leafs will be left looking for cheap players to fill any holes.

    • That’s not a good sign. A weaker version of the muskoka 5 all over again. Blow this team up if they don’t make the playoffs.

      • Ya that team that had those ‘muskoka 5′ players sure sucked. They were 100+pts team like only twice and made conference finals twice. Thanks I forgot how bad they were before the first lockout.

        • Mr. Negative (Moore) I believe Frank is referring to after the Muskoka 5 all signed their long term deals and then couldn’t qualify for the post season. Remember the country club atmosphere and everyone vetoing a trade even though the ship was sinking or do you have a short term memory.

        • My point was four out the five guys that were the Muskoka five never played to their contracts. Mc Cabe got booed out of town, Kaberale loved Toronto didn’t want to be a distraction so he got shipped out of town. Sundin gave the the new g.m the middle finger and told him he wasn’t going anywhere.

        • Agreed Ron…maybe just cause Im getting old and can remember more than a decade but yes the Muskoka 5 is not a terrible thing to be compared to. Blow up a team that is one of the youngest in the nhl? Sure sound smart should blow it up every couple years when they dont make the playoffs, just keep it in constant rebuild….who needs playoff hockey?

    • I agree, take it for what it’s worth: bullsh**.

  5. How about Clarkson, Gardner, Reimer for Yakupov, Musil and Bachman..

    • Ummm…Im going to go out on a limb here and say no lol

    • If Gardiner goes to the Oilers than Nurse is coming back …FOR SURE !!!

      if Clarkson goes to the Oilers, I want Hartkinainen in that deal ….

      I WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH….. YAKUPOV …asta la vista …

      I Still think the best trade partner for the Leafs is with the Jets or Avs !!!

      As a second scenario I would take on Cammellerie …move out Kulimen and Liles or Gunnarson to make the money work ..its good for both teams ! Leafs wont resign Kulimen anyways even if Cammallerie walks which he wont becuase hes from the GTA …he would be perfect on the PP unit and secondary scoring

      • Wow

        • If Clarkson goes to the Oilers forget about your return. All you should be thinking about is how many times you should thank them for taking him and his brutal contract. As an Oilers fan I want nothing to do with Clarkson and thank my lucky stars he wanted the Leafs.

      • BC….. you should sell some of your over active imagination to Hollywood.

        Enough said.

        • OH sorry …..as a GM …I want Petry , Jones and Ryan Smyth ….give your head a shake …..what do you think then !!

          Its called starting points …you dont give away players you have to get quality back ..both those guys arent even in the NHL Clarkson and Gardiner are !!!

          Give your head a shake dude

          • yeah and what your offering is garbage how does that help the oilers your not getting nurse for gardiner the oilers don’t need gardiner they have schultz who’s better gardiner is overrated if your wanting nurse the oilers are asking for rielly guaranteed

    • Lol hahahaha You serious?

      There’s no way the Leafs get rid of Clarkson and that horrendous contract. Unless of course they buy him out.

  6. If nostalgia ruled, Talbot would re-unite with the Pens at some point. I like Talbot, but the Pens have gritty role players on their current roster. Cammalleri, Stempniak, or Moulson make more sense to me as targets.

  7. Don’t see how Smith-Pelly ends up in oil town. Oilers don’t seem to have anything Ducks need right
    now and since Ducks have 5 picks in first 3 rounds of draft, don’t see that as a option either.
    Keep Smith-Pelly as Selanne / Koivu / Penner will be moving on at end of year and at least 3 forward
    spots will be open next season. Ducks already moved one prospect ( Holland) don’t move anymore.

    • @ Alford Ducks ….

      If I was Leaf GM I would be interested in Sheldon Souray for the Power play and veteran physical presence in front of the net …would a 3rd round draft pick and Liles make this work you think ???

      • Backing Checking

        Not sure as I think Souray has a NTC and his family is here in the west.
        Plus not quite sure when he is coming back, running out of time for him.
        Frankly the Leafs look stale to me, and I think they need a big trade.
        To: Leafs Vanek / Andrew MacDonald / Clutterbuck
        To: NYI – Gardiner / Clarkson / JML / Finn / Holland or #1 2014 Draft

        Face it NYI screwed up and need to move Vanek or they get nothing.
        Leafs will send them pieces to work with for future in Finn / Holland/ Gardiner.
        Clarkson just does not look like he fits in at all and leaf needs cap relief.
        JML gives NYI help on D now.

        MacDonald is more of a Randy Carlyle type guy, Cluterbuck is a cheaper version
        of Clarkson ( less offense ) but a third line like guy with Bollard when he returns.

        THE KEY IS THAT IT MUST BE A SIGN AND TRADE FOR VANEK.
        That’s the whole idea of sending Clarkson and JML out for cap relief.
        If contact cannot be agreed upon before trade, forget it.

        Better hurry as Minnesota is sliding and they just make come after Vanek
        now before the season slips away.

        Have a great day

        • Why suggest a team trade away cost controlled players for a potential UFA? I don’t think there are many that would do that. So let me get this straight, you want the Leafs trade away futures for winger who potentially will have no future with a team already strong on the wing. So let’s take away from a strength to add where you’re already set on. Wise, wise GM…and sign and trades happen all the time in fantasy land.

          • Mr. Negative (Moore) cost controlled players Clarkson/Liles? LMAO… if the Leafs want to rid themselves of two bad signings re Clarkson/Liles then who cares if Vanek is a UFA. The Leafs get out from under two brutal contracts and Vanek walks. Perfect scenario for the Leafs.

          • Ron
            Perhaps but they do happen and unless Vanek wants to spend the rest of the season at NYI it could be a way for him move with a contact in the future he can live with. Not many teams can afford Vanek as a UFA and more importantly NYI is playing a very dangerous game by waiting, if he gets injured and is not available at deadline, then NYI gets NOTHING.
            I would not also say it is a slam dunk that he becomes a UFA and signs with Minnesota. They have big ticket players in Parise, Sutter & Kouvi
            not sure they want another one or can afford it.
            Also your cost control players are ? Gardiner who no ones trusts when in a defensive roll ? JML who leafs been trying to dump for two years ?
            Clarkson, way overpaid for a third line wing ?
            Don’t forget I said that it has to be a sign and trade or no go.
            Now your right when you say they are rare, but it’s worth the shot and
            if everyone gets together and gets something out of it, it could happen
            but time is running out for NYI and also for the Leafs. A month ago
            it looked like the two wild cards would come out of the Northeast but
            the Leafs have faded a bit, teams like Washington, NYR, Phiily have closed the gap and Ottawa is now within striking distance.
            So do you make a change and shake things up or do you stand back
            and wait ?

          • @ RON MOORE

            Are you forgetting the Tim Thomas deal …they bought a contract to get to the ceiling and the guy never played ….LMFAO >>>>…hows that for cost controlled spending

          • Im not so sure they want to “rid” themselves of Clarkson 30 games in to his career as a Leaf Im sure they wish he would maybe come around to the player he was with Jersey a little quicker but over the last half dozen games or so he has looked better. Im not so sure he is a bust yet, if it he dosent perform in the next year or so, maybe they have some second thoughts but I doubt many GMs would right off any UFA they paid big bucks for in the first 30 games he played…Liles will be bought out or moved its 3.5 mill not 10 funny how everyone thinks Liles contract keeps the Leafs from improving I believe there will be someone to take a gamble on him and no one knows for sure that maybe the reason he hasnt moved yet is because Nonis is holding firm on not retaining any salary in a deal not just trying to give him away this all could change closer to the deadline and if it comes down to buying him out MLSE has loads of cash and will do so when Tucker and Armstrong come off the books in the summer Liles is not that big an issue.
            *NEWS FLASH*
            Almost every team in the League has cap issues, some bigger than the Leafs.

          • Problem is if the Leafs wait until Clarkson is a total bust no one will want him. Right now the jury is out on whether or not he can climb out of this hole so someone may take a chance on him. In a year from now as a total bust no one will take him.

        • That is just horrible on every level

          • So be it

            Go ahead Live with
            1) Jake skating Pretty and NEVER touching anyone
            2) JML contact
            3) Clarkson getting what 5 million a year and scoring 10-15 goals
            when not suspended
            4) Holland going back to AHL as soon as Bolland is back
            but on the bright side you just may get into the draft lottery

        • Pure comedy.

          JML was on waivers, nobody wanted him for free. Pretty sure if you put Clarkson on waivers the same would happen. Yet somehow together they can land Vanek, Clutterbuck and MacDonald. And in a sign and trade deal where Vanek isn’t a rental.

          Take out Liles, take out Clarkson. Throw in Kadri and a 1st. NYI gave up Moulson, a first and a second for Vanek alone, plus gave up El Nino for Clutterbuck. you aren’t gonna get those 3 guys for a couple mid level prospects and two plugs that eat cap space they aren’t worth.

          • Also, I love how the deal suggests holland or a 1st. What has holland done in the past month and a half to raise his stock to the point he’s interchangeable with a 1st rounder in any trade scenerio?

          • Can’t disagree with what you are saying but you cannot change history.
            NYI got Vanek hoping they were ready to make a run for it.
            It did not happen, that’s history, can’t do anything about that.
            Vanek is a really good hockey player and unless he has made a secret
            deal with the NYI will be gone at the trade deadline UNLESS he is injured.
            So if your NYI you have lost the draft picks, you have lost Moulson,
            your season is a mess, you take what you can get for Vanek NOW.
            For Leafs JVR/ Bozak/ Kessel
            Lupl / Kadri / Vanek
            Make a damn good top 6
            Paying Clarkson 5 million for 10 goals doesn’t cut it.
            Perhaps and I say Perhaps he is a better fit in NYI
            Gardiner will never be anything but a one dimensional d-man.
            MacDonald is much more of a defensive D man than Gardiner will
            ever be. As for JML – he would help NYI now as they really miss
            Visnovsky and if he performs well, could trade him up the road for a
            pick.

          • Al usually agree with ya but right now the way the Leafs have 0 depth at center Holland while not valuable to alot of teams is more valuable to the Leafs than a high priced winger, that being said McDonald would definitely be someone Nonis should have some interest in and I think that if there was away to swap say Gardiner or Franson for McDonald with out adding much else maybe a prospect or again a conditional pick of some sort to the deal it could work.
            Again realistically even with an awful contract the Leafs will not move Clarkson the optics of it would be awful and there is no point in trying to trade a guy you just paid big bucks for at his lowest point 30 games in to his first year.

            People are making way too much of Liles and his contract. Randy may not want to play him for what ever reason but in the games he has played in Liles has looked as good if not better than half of the Leafs D. Definitely better than Ranger and Fraser and did not constantly give pucks up like Franson or Gardiner

        • @ allforducks

          You serious?

          Your getting all these crap contracts for no bad contracts in return. Unless the Isles want to be miserable for a considerable amount of time there is no way the Isles do that. In fact Snow probably laugh in Nonis’ face if he offered that.

          • i would think with all the defenseman hurting in DET, TOR would call and help them make the dollars work to take JML off their hands and over to DET who need D with now Ericsson out and need cap help to take anything on. I am sure something could work out…

  8. the only trade rumours are from YOU brooksy go get dirt on ny

  9. Were there really *no* white players in Oilers history to whom Matheson could have compared Smith-Pelley?

  10. While Kadri and/or Gardiner could fetch interesting returns (perhaps not just a quick fix as Mr. Spector suggests) I for one would like to see Nonis and MLSE stay the course, and keep their young talent. In the summer the Leafs will be one of the teams that spend to the ceiling, and not all teams can afford to.

    Cliff Fletcher’s famous quote of “Draft, schmaft” and John Ferguson Junior’s trading away futures for desperate job saving options really set the team back in ideology and development for years. I’d really like to avoid that. If Nonis stays patient, and only considers trading away blue chip talent for bonefide superstars that are not on the verge of retirement he can keep the job for 10 years imo.

  11. The Leafs are making a big mistake signing Phaneuf for that much.He is cashing in on years gone by.The experts point to minutes and other stats to justify the raise.To me all that means is that a player whose skills are diminishing is causing more harm than good more often.He is a lazy player.Me…I would see if the Habs would swap Subban for him and Gardiner.I don’t believe the Canadiens will give Subban 8 and a half per year.Gardiner is another whose defensive shortcomings are not worth the offensive upside.

    • there is no way the habs will trade subban for princess and gardiner haha we have a defenceman in hamilton(nathan beaulieu0 who will be a regualr next season and will be better than gardiner if he isn’t already and the habs won’t trade subban for phaneuf you trade chris chelios type defence for average guys now if the leafs offered rielly jvr and a 1st bergevin would listen

    • Habs fan here…

      WHY would I want to trade away my Norris winning D man for ” a player whose skills are diminishing” and a player “whose defensive shortcomings are not worth the offensive upside”.

      Subban is currently 7th in the league in scoring (for Dmen), and 14th in ice time (for Dmen again). You can keep your Phaneuf.

  12. Paddy…I don’t think the comparison between Smith-Pelley and Grier was a racial thing. I just think it was a comparison to what type of player Smith-Pelly could be. And it wouldn’t be a bad thing for SP. Grier was a pretty tough dude. Oilers could use some of that.

    • Fair enough, and I always liked Grier as a player. I just figured maybe a comparison to Stoll or Arnott or a different, tough ex-Oiler who could chip in a 18-20 goals would have worked, too. Just felt like a lazy, race-based comparison, but you may well be right!

      • I thought the same thing Paddy, The Oilers have had other rugged type wingers who score 15-20 goals, funny Grier is the one mentioned.

  13. Unless the leafs can get a Traveres, Duschene, Weber or a lottery pick Gardner and Kadri are not going anywhere. Besides it would take more than those two to get any of those players. I see Holland as about the same as Kadri in another year or so. Reimer will be gone at some point because he is a good asset. Love his compete level but Bernier is better. I would be just as happy if they tinker with the defense and keep drafting. This team is pretty young overall so be patient.

  14. Can’t imagine why the Isles would want Clarkson or JML. I’m surprised you didn’t suggest the Isles send cash and Taveras in the deal. The Isles need a very good goalie prospect (and no I don’t think that means Reimer) in any deal for Vanek. More likely would be the Ducks for Anderson or Kings for Jones. Given how little goalies have fetched (Schneider for a pick, Bernier for scraps etc) I would suspect the Isles could get a solid goalie prospect and a pick or prospect for Vanek.

    • Completely agree. Ilses don’t want or need Liles or Clarkson, especially not for Vanek. Maybe I’m wrong, and if I am, I think my Habs should pony up some of their dead weight (Briere, Boullion and Murray) and land Vanek. Hell, I’d even be ok with sending them Bourque and desharnais too. May as well clear all the garbage and get an allstar in return for it.

  15. @alforducks

    I completely agree the isles can’t fix their mistake made by the vanek trade, but dumping those 3 guys for clarkson, liles, gardiner and a few mid level prospects would be a bigger mistake. Clarkson and Liles are at their lowest trade value ever. I don’t think any teams would take them for free. Yes, NYI lost a 1st and a 2nd, but how does dumping MacDonald and clutterbuck in a deal for guys that haven’t paned out fix that? They can still likely get a prospect + 1st for vanek alone at the trade deadline as a playoff rental. Theyre not gonna pick up clarksons $5 million + for the next 7 years in hopes in may pan out and give them vanek in return. Nor will they give macdonald for liles and hope liles picks his game up to the point they can swap him for a late rounder next year. That trade completely favours the leafs at the cost of the isles. They’d be picking up over $9 million in dead weight contracts for next season and giving up 3 servicable players for a trio of prospects that havent proven much.

    • Completely agree MSJ, if I’m a GM and the Leafs offer Clarkson, Liles and Gardner I tell them to sweeten the pot a lot without anything going the other way. Gardner alone isn’t worth taking on those two contracts. Of course Snow has done some pretty stupid stuff in the last year so who knows. Molson plus picks for Vanek was a bad deal in the first place, spending your trade chips to ignore the glaring needs on defence and in net where weak at best. Moving Nino for Clutterbuck was also a bery bad move IMO.

      • would you go for Gardiner, JML, Kadri and a 1st for Vanek and MacDonald?

        • Need a center not a winger..

  16. And welcome to another day of Leaf Corner. Stay turned for tomorrow’s episode when most Leaf fans come up with stupid trade ideas, like back checking

    • Getting to the point where I think most of us just skip over the TML comment sections. :)

    • You know…. with out Leaf fans (among a few other teams) most of the sites that survive on ad revenue driven by hits would be reduced to asking you to pay for view right?

  17. i think i just read a gardiner and phaneuf for subban trade if i scroll the page,yikes.lol habs say no.

  18. A section that might be worth your attention Mr. Spector – ‘pitch a trade’ idea, and have it graded by your audience using a webform/survey widget. Think of it as ‘hot or not’ tailored to hockey. It would act as a good outlet for those with good and not so good ideas, and once a pitch it out there, it could likely be designed to reject duplicates.

  19. I realize I am going against the grain here, but I think the Leafs did a bit more research on David Clarkson than most give credit for. I think they knew (and its reported) and told him, that they were not looking for him to be a 30 goal scorer. He did not get drafted, nor did he succeed this long in the league because of that. He is a role player, and can at times can be a game changer. I have watched him without bias, and I believe he is slowly (a lot slower for most) emerging as the player the Leafs (and other teams) sought during free agency. He will likely be here for his entire contract, and in fairness he needs to be given a litle bit more than the 28 or so games he has played to find his fit. I have not done the research, because I am frankly too lazy, but which centre has he had a real chance to develop any chemistry with? I believe he has played with all of Kadri, Bolland,McClement, Smithson, Smith, and Holland and any number of wingers. One of the biggest issues the Leafs are dealing with is the “pick a centre, any centre” scenario they have had to deal with this year. And that acknowledges that the Leafs have not had, and do not have a legitimate # one centre since the departure of Mats Sundin. I think Clarkson deserves more than 28 games to settle in to a new team, and teammmates, under the glare of the Toronto spotllight. The swagger the Leafs had last year with their toughness has been all but absent except for Clarkson. I have more patience for him than some of the other Leafs players. Trading Clarkson would be foolish in my opinion. If the coach is staying, which it would appear he is, the team needs to better reflect his system, and Stanley Cup winning formula. That would include more Clarksons, not less.

    • All very good points and pretty much agreed with…again not really defending the contract as I think the term is a killer, but in no way did the Leafs think Clarkson was going to be a 25-30 goal guy more like a 20 goal guy who was going to be a nightmare in front of the net on the second or 3rd line. He scored 30 with alot of help playing first line pp minutes which he is not going to get with the wingers the Leafs have. I agree its not a perfect scenario but the Leafs overpaid for a sandpaper type guy.

  20. when bolland returns, lupul gets healthier and nonis finds the missing link for the gaping blue line hole, you will all stop belly-aching phaneuf’s much deserved contract and the fact that clarkson took what he could get from the team he wanted to play for instead of signing with one of the other every teams who wanted him. these are not bad signings. they are cornerstone contracts nonis can now build upon.

  21. Bruins should talk to Toronto about a replacement for Dennis. Boston did ok with getting Rask, Hamilton ,Knight ,Smith ,Morrow, Fraser and Loui for Kessel and Raycroft.

  22. Leafs give: Reimer, Clarkson, Lilles, Kulemin, Finn, 2nd rounder 2014.
    NYI give: Vanek, Nabakov, Clutterbuck, Martinek

    All this assumes Toronto can sign Vanek for about $7 mil per season so it effectively becomes a one player + minor cap relief trade for Toronto while the Isle get a young, potentially legit #1 goalie, serviceable veteran forwards that will some grit, a decent puck moving D, a prospect and high pick.

  23. After February 28th

    To Toronto: ROR
    To Colorado: Kadri + Gardiner + Ranger + Ashton

    Kadri will never be as good as Duchene and MacKinnon, so Colorado can later sign him to a long term contract less than Duchene’s. Meanwhile, Colorado can trade Stastny before Free Agency. Montreal was rumored many a times that they want Stastny. Toronto can then sign ROR to a long term contract at $7M per.

    • Ummm no ROR could probably be had for considerably less than Stasny due to the fact as an RFA he will require a 6 million qualifying offer just to go to arbitration I doubt very much (I hope not anyway) Kadri who is locked up for another year and Gardiner would both go in a deal for an RFA who has already signed 1 offersheet. Ranger and Ashton are window dressing. I would sugest something of a package around Gardiner or Franson with a prospect and a pick.