NHL Trade and Free Agent Rumors – July 23, 2012.

Red Wings and Penguins hope to meet with Shane Doan, more speculation of a Flyers-Predators trade, Alexander Semin’s rumored asking price, and an update on Tim Thomas.

MLIVE.COM: Ansar Khan reports Detroit Red Wings GM Ken Holland hopes to meet face-to-face with Phoenix Coyotes captain Shane Doan, who recently met with the respective managements of the NY Rangers and Philadelphia Flyers. Other teams believed to have interest in him include the LA Kings, Vancouver Canucks, San Jose Sharks, Pittsburgh Penguins and Buffalo Sabres. Doan would prefer to re-sign with the Phoenix Coyotes, but his agent said their unsettled ownership situation has forced his client to at least consider options with other teams.

PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW: Josh Yohe reports Doan’s agent, Terry Bross, said his client is likely to visit Pittsburgh and meet with Penguins management soon.

HOCKEY INSIDE/OUT (VIA MONTREAL GAZETTE): The Montreal Canadiens, who have expressed interest in Shane Doan, might have to outbid fifteen other clubs for his services, so it is far from a certainty he’ll wind up in Montreal.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: It’s at least promising for the Penguins if Doan intends to meet with them, as it was for the Flyers and Rangers. Of course, if he starts visiting with the management of every team interested in signing him, there won’t be any way of determining which one (besides Phoenix) has the advantage. Looks like Doan isn’t close to a decision and probably won’t  be for a while.

Is there a trade scenario for Weber?

PHILLY.COM: Sam Carchidi reports Flyers GM Paul Holmgren and Nashville Predators GM David Poile have spoken only once since the former signed Predators captain Shea Weber to an 14-year, $110 million offer sheet last Wednesday. Carchidi suggests that fuels speculation the Predators might be thinking of sending Weber to the Flyers via trade.  Carchidi also suggests there’s a chance the two clubs could work out a trade if the Predators don’t match the Flyers offer, in which the former sends back some of the first round picks they’ll received from the latter as compensation, in exchange for some players.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: It’s my understanding that, once a player signs that offer sheet – regardless of whether or not it’s matched – he cannot be traded for a full calendar year.  So far, I’ve found nothing which suggests otherwise, so I find Carchidi’s suggestion about the Predators trading Weber to the Flyers a puzzling one. If anyone can find something in the current CBA to clarify this, please post it in the comments section or contact me via e-mail.  If the Predators decide not to match the offer, the two teams can work out a separate deal whereby the Flyers deal a player or two to the Predators for a couple of those compensatory draft picks.

NEWSOBSERVER.COM: Chip Alexander reports UFA winger Alexander Semin is thought to be seeking $7 million or more per season. The Carolina Hurricanes are interested in signing Semin, but only to a one-year contract.

SPECTOR’S NOTE: I’ve also read Semin is willing to accept less than the $6.7 million he earned last season, but also wants a multi-year deal. If Semin is indeed seeking $7 million or more, he’ll have a long, long wait on his hands.

BOSTON GLOBE: Fluto Shinzawa reports several lower-revenue teams have inquired about acquiring Tim Thomas from the Bruins to reach the salary cap floor for this season. Those teams are expected to revisit their interest when the new CBA sets the cap floor. It’s believed the Bruins would want a conditional draft pick for Thomas.

42 Comments

  1. What Sam meant by a “trade” is the “Gratton” process where the Flyers had an offer sheet for RFA Chris Gratton. In exchange for TB not matching (where the Flyers gave up 4 1st rounders) TB sent the 1st rounders back to Philly for a number of players.

  2. Spector,

    Just so we’re all clear here because I have some questions are this also….
    Fact: Weber signed the offer sheet from Philly @ $110/14yr.

    We’re all clear on what happens if Nashville matches. If they don’t match they will receive 4 draft picks, all in the 1st round from Philly for the next 4 years. Here’s where the questions come: Nashville doesn’t match and they aren’t quite happy with the 4 first rounders. They work out a trade with Philly whereas they only get a portion of the 4 picks along with a player or two. At this point, does Weber still get that contract he signed or does it become void and a new deal must be worked out?
    If Nashville doesn’t/can’t match the offer, can the 2 teams squash the offer sheet and work out a trade and then Philly goes back to negotiating a new deal?
    Basically, trade or not trade, bottom line is that Shea Weber is going to get the 110/14yr deal?

    • The answer is… either Nashville matches, or takes the 4 picks…either way Weber gets his obscene contract (from Phi, or Nsh.)

    • From what I understand, the offer sheet is a lock, if Nashville matches it or not. Any trade would happen after the fact. Now Weber cannot be traded for one year, not sure if it season or calendar. If Nashville isn’t happy with the four first rounders, they can attempt to trade them to Philly, along with any other team, for players. But Philly is under no obligation to substitute players for picks.

  3. I think the Preds will match. They can’t lose both Weber and Suter in one summer and sell that to their fans. Plus any potential Gratton like trade is still a rip off for the Preds. They can’t get full value back for Weber in any trade with the Flyers. It is a tough pill to swallow in paying Weber all the bonus money over the next 5 years but at least you have one of the best dmen in the league locked up for the rest of his career. He is only 26 years old. As a Wings fan, it would be easier to play the Preds without Weber. However, I want the Preds to match because if the Flyers are successful here, I could see more teams doing the same to unsigned RFAs in the future which would further drive up the salaries.

    As for Semin, am I missing something here? He scored 22 goals last season right? He wants 7 mil or more per season? Plus he has a league wide reputation as a coach killer and a cancer in the dressing room with a lazy work ethic? LOL No thanks!

    I think Shane Doan should have a new soap opera on CBS. As Doan’s World Turns. Days of Doan’s Lives. The Doan and the Teamless. Seriously though, this is becoming ridiculous, no? I like Doan but he is not the second coming of Cam Neely. Obviously the guy is staying in Phoenix. You know it’s like high school where you are with the hot chick and all these other girls want you. But they can’t compete with the hot chick you are already with. So you look at the others but don’t do anything. These other teams all think they have a shot and they don’t. Phoenix is the hot chick and the Flyers, Pens, Rangers and Wings are the sloppy seconds. Where’s Avery? Maybe he can tour the league and we can all talk about which team he will sign with. Ugh. I hate the off season!

    • Poile might not have a choice, Wingsfan. If Weber and Suter don’t want to be there, then what is Poile supposed to do? Poile needs to look Weber in the eye and ask him, “do you want to be a Predator, or not?” If Shae is iffy on it, (and I believe he is), then Poile has no choice. He has to make the best of the situation.

      I believe Weber is gonzo, because I suspect the offer sheet was instigated by his own camp. Weber’s agents probably visited Holmgren and said, “hey, now might be a good time to send our client an offer sheet…wink wink…nudge nudge.”

    • Doan has earned the right to decide on his own terms where he plays. The soap opera has been created by the media, not by him.

    • The question about matching also come down to whether or not the Preds can afford to match. That’s why the Flyers loaded all those signing bonuses in the first few years.

    • “They can’t get full value back for Weber in any trade with the Flyers.”

      I don’t fully agree with this. A conversation such as… “Look you either give us player A, B and C and picks X, Y and Z or we match the offer and never ever consider trading him to you. Ever. In fact, in a years time, when we can trade him, we may consider taking less from Pitsburgh, NY, NJ or NY… what’s it going to be?”

      Pretty sure that might get them fair value. Not saying it will happen, just saying, they do have the ability to bargain here assuming they can actually match the offer sheet.

  4. Sam Carchidi isn’t saying Nashville is going to trade Weber to Philly but rather some of the first round draft picks Nashville would receive as compensation. This is plausible as they can use the threat of resigning Weber as leverage. It could be a win/win for both. Philly gets the guy they want and the Predators get to look at least slightly proactive in not losing a team leader for late first round picks.

  5. Weber is a lock for the contract and it is not that they will be trading Weber. Like was explained above, instead they work out a separate deal of compensation as opposed to what they would get in order to not match. This is the best case scenario for the Preds at this time if they can get the Flyers to bite on it. My best guesses

    Best Case (for Flyers): Read, Meszaros, two 1st rounders
    Worst Case (for Flyers): Brayden Schenn, Luke Schenn, 1st rounder

  6. I believe Carchidi is talking about a “Gratton-type” trade scenario. In that scenario, Poile would agree not to match the offer and would trade back some of the compensatory picks for actual roster players from the Flyers.

    • This is the only ‘trade option’ available.

  7. Regarding the Weber situation, the Preds retain Weber’s rights until the one week is up. During this 7 day period Weber’s rights can be traded to Philly for something other than the 4 first round picks that would otherwise go to the Preds. The conversation is something like “we’ll sign the offer sheet and keep Weber unless you (Philly) want to do this trade package….”. If the trade doesn’t work out, and Nashville accepts the offer sheet contract, they must keep him until next summer at least.

    • Once that offer sheet is signed, his rights cannot be traded.

  8. Curiuos, if there are really teams out there that need to reach the salary cap, why not more talk of Gomez? He’s paid, what, 5.5 this year for a 7.35 salary cap hit. And next year, 4.5 for that same 7.35 hit? I think a fair trade would be the Habs 5th round and Gomez for another team’s 7th? PLEASE WONT SOMEONE TAKE HIM?!?!

    And Wingsfan, I’m not sure why the comment about Doan. We have this pretty much every year. A decent player says: “I’ll take my time, figure out where I want to go” and the media beat this story to death on a daily basis. I have no issues with Doan, but I do have issues with the media (sorry Lyle) reporting on this EVERY DAY. :)

    • @xJayce – as a big Habs fan I was wondering the same thing. Couldn’t the Habs do exactly what you said, move down in the draft (e.g. 5th to 7th) to get someone to take Gomez? I think it’s possible, but might need him to light it up in the minors first.

      As for the cap floor, I’d hoped the same, that some team would take him to hit it. But Thomas is a way better option there, as they get $4M towards the cap and have to pay $0 salary or use a roster spot for him.

      A Bruin screws over the Habs again!! lol

    • Becasue even if you are saving ~$2M vs the cap, you still have to pay a guy $5.5Million who isnt worth half of that.

      • The idea is that the team has to pay that money out anyway, but I agree, I do not think you want him on your team at all. More likely that Kaberle and Bourque get taken instread of Gomez. My Guess is that Bergevin kept Gomezz to 1) see if he can trade him as suggested, and 2) hoping he gets a free buy-out with the new CBA.

    • Because Gomez sucks soooo much it’s not even helpful to have him take up a roster spot and pay him all that money. It must suck if you’re a player on a team and have a big money player like him not contribute while you bust your ass and not get the same $$$

    • i’m not expert on these things but my understanding is that the difference between thomas and gomez is that thomas has already decided that he won’t play next year. so a team could acquire him, using his contract to get over the cap floor, and then suspend him for not reporting to the team. by suspending him the team wouldn’t have to pay him and he wouldn’t take up a roster spot. if a team acquires gomez, yes they get above the floor but they still have to pay him.

  9. if the Preds are going to “give back” a couple picks, you would think they would get atleast Mezaros back. The Flyers will need to shep som salary just to be comforitable. Even with Pronger on LTIR, they would still be pushing hard against the cap with this deal.

    The Predators are allowed to send the compensation picks in a trade if they dont match the offer. But I loke the trade JJB put up. Read, Mezaros and 2 1st rounders is a really good. Its not going to replac Weber by any means, but it will help the Predators now and in the future.

  10. @JJB

    I honestly doubt the flyers trade Luke schenn almost a month after they acquired him. And Brayden schenn is a no go for them to. They brought one into the mix to play with his brother they won’t blow that all away.

    Nashville will most likely match the offer. I believe they cannot do side deals unless it’s after the fact and in which it doesn’t involve the player that was offered the sheet

  11. Take your FOUR 1st rounders and run.

    If you can trade some assets back to Phi and Get Schenn and/or Couturier, God Bless…. but that seems unlikely.

    I’ll take the pics rather than a $110M comitted to any player.

  12. I believe what happens is the Flyers can pull the offer sheet at any time until the deal is finalized.

    • No they can’t.

  13. Why this offer sheet works is because Nashville isn’t a rich team, and Philly’s contract, regardless of cap hit, has something like 24 million going to Weber in the first calendar year.

    If this offer was against Toronto, Habs, Rangers etc and they wanted to keep the player, it wouldn’t be an issue. This is a money thing here, as Nashville, regardless of wanting the player or not.. just might not be able to afford him.

    ~~~

    As for Doan coming to Montreal, I would love him, but he’s not coming. Not a cup contender, and the hockey hot bed I think will keep him away.

  14. Okay, so other than the fact this is an “offer sheet”, that is structured in a way that a small market team will find it financially difficult to match, and falls within the guidelines of the current CBA .. I’m not really sure why so many are crying foul on the only other potential issues; which are Term & AAV.

    Bonuses don’t affect the AAV if the overall amount of the contract is still $110 x 14yrs. All they affect is the actual salary, not the cap hit.

    Ryan Suter just signed for $7,538,462 per year for 13 years, taking him to 39 or 40 yrs old, and not many cried foul over that contract.

    So, why are some saying that Weber is not worth, basically, the same money, 7,857,143 per year, over 14 yrs, also taking him to 39 or 40 yrs old?

    Now, if I have something wrong here, I apologize in advance and hope someone corrects me.

  15. in regards to gomez, why make a trade to make the floor until the new cba comes out? the floor might go down.

    in regards to weber, it sounds like he wants out of nashville, but i wonder how much of his signing the offer sheet has to do with the cba changing, and weber signing the best deal he can when he can. maybe he doesn’t care if he stays in nashville, but wants to sign to super contract before they get snuffed out.

    • Based on the comments from Weber’s agent, that Shea does not want to go through another rebuild, it sounds like he does in fact want out of Nashville. I wouldn’t think they would need to go through another “rebuild” unless Weber leaves though. If he stays, I would think they’ll be competitive like they always are, and likely sneak into playoffs still as a tough team to play against.

      It just seems like once Weber got this offer from Philly, the idea of both making massive amounts of money, and playing for a true cup contender like Philly is just too enticing, and that now he very much wants out of Nashville. And really, who could blame him.

  16. Yeah they deal would be to trade the “phantom” 4 picks (that would be delivered had the Preds not matched), for picks/players from Philly’s roster for Weber.

    What I don’t get is why the journalist would EVER think that Poile and Holmgren only talking once since the offer sheet in ANY WAY means that the Preds are looking to make a trade with Philly.
    Huh?
    If Poile was hoping to force the Flyers into a deal, wouldn’t he be on the phone daily discussing players?
    The previous trade offer wasn’t enough for Poile to make a deal before the Flyers produced the offer sheet, why would anyone think the lack of communication means that they are going to make a deal now?

    Seems to me that if a deal were imminent, they would be on the phone constantly. No calls? The Preds must be planning to match, methinks.

  17. If Thomas is available, the MapleLeafs should be pursuing him very aggressively for at least a one year contract or they may have no hope of climbing out of the gutter. Do something Burke! You have the cap space. You have the assets to trade (assuming Boston is only after something like a conditional draft pick). Get it done. Nuff said! Over and out …

  18. TSN has reported about a couple hours ago that Nash will be a Ranger. They are close should be done before the end of the day. Like I have been saying TSN will tell you the truth.

  19. MasterJedi, why would you want Thomas if he doesn’t want to play next year?

  20. In order for Poile to save face for the franchise he has to deal with Holmgren over compensatory picks in some sort of make believe trade or whatever.Poile cannot lose both Suter and Weber for essentially nothing,in 2 months.Like Columbus they will never be able to hold on to great young talent or attract big ticket FA’s.Sucks to be a small market NHL fan.

  21. Leafs should be wise to look closely at the Nashville situation with Weber and Suter. Losing your two top d hurts and they will be looking to add some more d before the season if they are truly a playoff team. How about offering Phaneuf and Gunnarsson for Colin Wilson and Jonathon Blum.

  22. Weber was happy enough to stay until Suter left.

    I guess he felt that the team would not be any good without Suter.. and don’t forget they also lost Hamhuis.

    If the Preds don’t match.. they are in for a few rough seasons. The contract was structured to make it very difficult for Nashville… It may be legal to do it… but I call the way it is structured it just ‘dirty pool’.

    If they can work it with the Flyers and the league to take 2 picks and 2 ‘good’ players.. then that may help.

    The Flyers will have about 5M in cap space once Prongers goes back on LTIR when the season starts.

    Don’t know how they can afford Doan as well.

    They still need to sign Voracek & Bourdon… So it will be a little tight.

    He will find a big difference playing in front of Bryzgalov than Rinne.

  23. A conditional trade is made for some or all of the 4 compensatory picks. The condition is that the offer sheet is not matched. Effectively, it’s the same as a trade for the signed player.

  24. Because if you trade for Thomas and he sits out you don’t have to pay him, but his salary still counts towards the team cap hit.

  25. @ Sandy: “The contract was structured to make it very difficult for Nashville… It may be legal to do it… but I call the way it is structured it just ‘dirty pool’.”

    I agree. However, isn’t that really the nature of the beast though, when referring to offer sheets? Why would anyone submit/sign an, easily matched, offer sheet to a player you want to sign away from another club.

  26. The offer sheet from philly was quite clever (and destructive) in hindsight. Wasn’t the deal structured to get Weber 26 million the first year with bonuses etc? Since preds matched the contract they are stuck with those 26 million if he can’t be traded for a year.

  27. You’re right about them not being able to trade him for a year.

    10.3 b) in the CBA states:

    If the team (Prior Club) matches the offer sheet then:
    “The prior club may not trade that RFA for a period of one year from the date it exercises its Right of First Refusal.”